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Re: [HOME_NETWORK_TF] Comments on "Application Communication" requirement

From: Giuseppe Pascale <giuseppep@opera.com>
Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 23:23:35 +0200
To: "public-web-and-tv@w3.org" <public-web-and-tv@w3.org>, "Matt Hammond" <matt.hammond@rd.bbc.co.uk>, "Bob Lund" <B.Lund@cablelabs.com>
Message-ID: <op.v0zu1lto6ugkrk@giuseppep-x220>
On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 18:24:04 +0200, Bob Lund <B.Lund@cablelabs.com> wrote:

> So the two requirements are:
>
> 1.6.2.1  
> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#Service_Discovery
> 1.6.3.9  
> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#Application_communication
>
> Correct? If so, looks good.
>

Well to sum up at the end of the discussion we have the requirements above  
plus these additional ones
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#Application_Discovery
http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#Service_communication

/g

> Bob
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Giuseppe Pascale [mailto:giuseppep@opera.com]
>> Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 7:30 AM
>> To: public-web-and-tv@w3.org; Bob Lund; Matt Hammond
>> Subject: Re: [HOME_NETWORK_TF] Comments on "Application Communication"
>> requirement
>>
>> I merged the new requirement
>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#Appl
>> ication_communication
>>
>> /g
>>
>> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 12:58:47 +0200, Matt Hammond
>> <matt.hammond@rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> > Ah, I see - yes discovery is probably already covered. I'm happy with
>> > what you propose.
>> >
>> > many thanks
>> >
>> >
>> > Matt
>> >
>> > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:15:02 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale
>> > <giuseppep@opera.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 29 Aug 2011 11:59:30 +0200, Matt Hammond
>> >> <matt.hammond@rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> I think you are right - this needs separating into two requirements.
>> >>>
>> >>> I believe that what Bob originally suggested regarding "discovery"
>> >>> might apply "application communication" too.  For example:
>> >>>
>> >>> "Application communication: Conforming specifications should provide
>> >>> a means for applications running in different user-agents to
>> >>> discover each other and exchange messages directly via the home
>> network."
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> There is a separate section/requirement for discovery.
>> >> As is phrased now the requirement about discovery mention both
>> >> services and "application exposing services":
>> >>
>> >> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirements#S
>> >> ervice_Discovery
>> >>
>> >> ***
>> >> Service Discovery:
>> >> Conforming specifications should provide a means for applications to
>> >> discover devices and applications in the home network which advertise
>> >> services. Details of the advertising protocol are out of scope for
>> >> this document and the type and number of supported discovery
>> >> protocols are user agent dependent. Nevertheless conforming
>> >> specifications should provide a means for application to identify the
>> >> type of discovered services that are available and to search for
>> >> services of a specific type.
>> >> ***
>> >>
>> >> I think is just a matter of semantics here: is an application that is
>> >> discoverable implicitly "exposing a service"? If so, then we may not
>> >> need a new requirement; if not, we may want to separate
>> >> discovery/communication of applications from discovery/communication
>> >> of services.
>> >>
>> >> Honestly I don't have a strong opinion.  One reason why we may want
>> >> to split this in 2 requirements could be that app-2-app discovery and
>> >> communication could probably generate slightly different requirements
>> >> if compared to app-2-service discovery & communication when going
>> >> into the actual specification work.
>> >>
>> >> In short I see 2 options:
>> >> #1 we keep the requirement as quote above
>> >> #2 we add to the requirement above another one that could look like
>> this:
>> >>
>> >> ***
>> >> Application Discovery:
>> >> Conforming specifications should provide a means for applications
>> >> running in different user-agents to discover each other directly via
>> >> the home network. Details of the advertising protocol are out of
>> >> scope for this document.
>> >> ***
>> >>
>> >> I would propose to go for option #2.
>> >>
>> >> /g
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> many thanks
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Matt
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 23:31:05 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale
>> >>> <giuseppep@opera.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:49:33 +0200, Matt Hammond
>> >>>> <matt.hammond@rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Definitely agree with Bob that this requirement should be
>> >>>>> expressed in terms of how there needs to be discovery in order to
>> >>>>> initiate communication.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thinking about the use of the term 'services': should this be
>> >>>>> phrased in terms of 'applications' throughout, rather than
>> 'services'?
>> >>>>> Communication with services is already covered by other
>> requirements.
>> >>>>> This particular requirement originated from the "Local Link for
>> >>>>> Web Applications" use case[1]:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requirement
>> >>>>> s#U14:_Local_Link_of_Web_Applications
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Agree. It seems to me we need 2 requirements. We can leave the one
>> >>>> about "service communication" as phrased below, plus I would add
>> >>>> the
>> >>>> following:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "Application communication: Conforming specifications should
>> >>>> provide a means for applications running in different user-agents
>> >>>> to exchange messages directly via the home network."
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Bob, Matt, what do you think?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> /g
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> regards
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Matt
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, 23 Aug 2011 16:08:04 +0100, Giuseppe Pascale
>> >>>>> <giuseppep@opera.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> On Mon, 22 Aug 2011 18:13:38 +0200, Bob Lund
>> >>>>>> <B.Lund@cablelabs.com>
>> >>>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I agree but I think it should be stated in terms of access to
>> >>>>>>> services discovered on the home network:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> "Service communication: Conforming specifications should provide
>> >>>>>>> a means for a client to exchange messages directly via the home
>> >>>>>>> network with services discovered in the home network."
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> As discussed I changed this into
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> "Service communication: Conforming specifications should provide
>> >>>>>> a means for an application to exchange messages directly via the
>> >>>>>> home network with services discovered in the home network."
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/HNTF/Home_Network_TF_Requiremen
>> >>>>>> ts#Service_communication
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> /g
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> Bob
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>>>> From: public-web-and-tv-request@w3.org
>> >>>>>>>> [mailto:public-web-and-tv- request@w3.org] On Behalf Of
>> >>>>>>>> Jean-Claude Dufourd
>> >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:05 AM
>> >>>>>>>> To: public-web-and-tv@w3.org
>> >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [HOME_NETWORK_TF] Comments on "Application
>> >>>>>>>> Communication"
>> >>>>>>>> requirement
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> I strongly support this clarification about direct
>> communication.
>> >>>>>>>> Best regards
>> >>>>>>>> JC
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 22/8/11 16:44 , Giuseppe Pascale wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> > On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 20:20:43 +0200, Matt Hammond
>> >>>>>>>> > <matt.hammond@rd.bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> >> Hi all,
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >> Apologies for this being a little later than I originally
>> >>>>>>>> intended:
>> >>>>>>>> >> as I mentioned in last week's conf call, I have a comment
>> >>>>>>>> regarding
>> >>>>>>>> >> the "Application Communication" requirement.
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >> Would it be helpful to clarify that this requirement is
>> >>>>>>>> specifically
>> >>>>>>>> >> intended to enable direct communication between
>> applications?
>> >>>>>>>> This
>> >>>>>>>> >> would be to distinguish it from an implementation that (for
>> >>>>>>>> example)
>> >>>>>>>> >> sent all communications through a cloud based relay or
>> >>>>>>>> >> proxying
>> >>>>>>>> service?
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >> For example: "Conforming specifications should provide a
>> >>>>>>>> >> means
>> >>>>>>>> for
>> >>>>>>>> >> applications to exchange messages directly via the home
>> >>>>>>>> >> network
>> >>>>>>>> with
>> >>>>>>>> >> other applications running on a different user agent in the
>> >>>>>>>> >> home network."
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> > Hi Matt,
>> >>>>>>>> > thanks for raising this in writing.
>> >>>>>>>> > I agree that several (all?) of the use cases we have
>> >>>>>>>> > discussed
>> >>>>>>>> require
>> >>>>>>>> > (preferably) a direct communication. I think this is pretty
>> >>>>>>>> > uncontroversial and could add it right away to the
>> >>>>>>>> > requirement
>> >>>>>>>> document.
>> >>>>>>>> > Some of the use cases could actually be covered by an
>> >>>>>>>> > indirect communication mechanism as well, so probably also
>> >>>>>>>> > that would be
>> >>>>>>>> in
>> >>>>>>>> > scope. On other end such a mechanism may either not need
>> >>>>>>>> (additional)
>> >>>>>>>> > standardization or fall back to the a different discussion
>> >>>>>>>> > about
>> >>>>>>>> which
>> >>>>>>>> > services could be standardized.
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> > So in short I'm fine to re-word the requirement as you
>> >>>>>>>> > suggested
>> >>>>>>>> if
>> >>>>>>>> > nobody objects.
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> > /g
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> >> regards
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >>
>> >>>>>>>> >> Matt
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>> >
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> --
>> >>>>>>>> JC Dufourd
>> >>>>>>>> Directeur d'Etudes/Professor
>> >>>>>>>> Groupe Multimedia/Multimedia Group Traitement du Signal et
>> >>>>>>>> Images/Signal and Image Processing Telecom ParisTech, 37-39 rue
>> >>>>>>>> Dareau, 75014 Paris, France
>> >>>>>>>> Tel: +33145817733 - Mob: +33677843843 - Fax: +33145817144
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Giuseppe Pascale
>> TV & Connected Devices
>> Opera Software - Sweden


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Received on Monday, 29 August 2011 21:24:22 UTC

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