Re: Example of repetition of navigational mechanisms in the same page (SC 3.23)

same way they would within a page

the requirement is for a “set of web pages” but for an app - I  would just be the app.

the same way it SHOULD (but is not required to be) WITHIN a page. 

yes?


> On Mar 1, 2025, at 2:51 AM, Abou-Zahra, Shadi <sabouzah@amazon.at> wrote:
> 
> Gregg,
>  
> You say: “they occur in the same relative place with respect to the content blocks in each page” – doesn’t “each page” imply “within a set of web pages”? How would that work for non-web documents and software?
>  
> Best,
>   Shadi
>  
> ---
> Shadi Abou-Zahra
> Amazon Devices and Services
> Principal Accessibility Standards and Policy Manager
> ---
>  
>  
> From: Gregg Vanderheiden RTF <gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>>
> Sent: Friday, 28 February, 2025 11:02 PM
> To: Abou-Zahra, Shadi <sabouzah@amazon.at <mailto:sabouzah@amazon.at>>
> Cc: Bruce Bailey <bruce@bailey4.us <mailto:bruce@bailey4.us>>; loic@fi.upm.es <mailto:loic@fi.upm.es>; WCAG2ICT <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org <mailto:public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>>
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Example of repetition of navigational mechanisms in the same page (SC 3.23)
>  
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
>  
> Shadi I  think you are over interpreting it. 
>  
> they are in the same order.
>  
> they occur in the same relative place with respect to the content blocks in each page.
>  
> if the occurred sometimes at the top and sometimes at the bottom of a block that would be differnet. 
>  
> These fit both the spirit and the letter of provision.    Relative is the key. 
>  
> If they are at the bottom AND the top  — that also works - as long as it is consistently both.
>  
>  
> this discussion is irrespective of the view/page/screen issue and will appear on both 
>  
> G
>  
>  
> 
> 
> On Feb 28, 2025, at 2:11 AM, Abou-Zahra, Shadi <sabouzah@amazon.at <mailto:sabouzah@amazon.at>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Bruce,
>  
> Looking at the example that Loïc provided, one navigational mechanism is above the data table and another below. They cannot be in the same relative order if they are repeated in different parts of the content. The proposed requirement contradicts itself. I don’t think that this issue can be resolved without some definition of “view”, “screen”, or whatever term in place of “page”.
>  
> Best,
>   Shadi
>  
> ---
> Shadi Abou-Zahra
> Amazon Devices and Services
> Principal Accessibility Standards and Policy Manager
> ---
>  
>  
> From: Bruce Bailey <bruce@bailey4.us <mailto:bruce@bailey4.us>> 
> Sent: Friday, 28 February, 2025 11:02 AM
> To: Abou-Zahra, Shadi <sabouzah@amazon.at <mailto:sabouzah@amazon.at>>; Gregg Vanderheiden RTF <gregg@raisingthefloor.org <mailto:gregg@raisingthefloor.org>>; loic@fi.upm.es <mailto:loic@fi.upm.es>
> Cc: WCAG2ICT <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org <mailto:public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>>
> Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] Example of repetition of navigational mechanisms in the same page (SC 3.23)
>  
> CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click links or open attachments unless you can confirm the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
>  
> This is one of the SC which I am of the opinion should be reinterpreted for something which works well for mobile apps and non-web software.  Something like:
>  
> Navigational mechanisms which are repeated in non-web software occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 28, 2025, at 3:43 AM, Abou-Zahra, Shadi <sabouzah@amazon.at <mailto:sabouzah@amazon.at>> wrote:
>  
> Hi Gregg, Loïc,
>  
> Apologies, I’m just not getting it. Currently, the requirement says:
>  
> “Navigational mechanisms that are repeated on multiple web pages within a set of web pages occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.”
>  
> If I understand you both correctly, you are proposing this rewrite:
>  
> “Navigational mechanisms that are repeated *within a web page* [or document/software] occur in the same relative order each time they are repeated, unless a change is initiated by the user.”
>  
> How can navigation mechanisms occur in the same relative order (definition: “same position relative to other items”), if they are intentionally repeated on different parts of the web page?
>  
> Best,
>   Shadi
>  
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> Amazon Development Center Austria GmbH
> Brueckenkopfgasse 1
> 8020 Graz
> Oesterreich
> Sitz in Graz
> Firmenbuchnummer: FN 439453 f
> Firmenbuchgericht: Landesgericht fuer Zivilrechtssachen Graz