- From: Peter Korn <peter.korn@oracle.com>
- Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2013 16:23:26 -0700
- To: Gregg Vanderheiden <gv@trace.wisc.edu>
- CC: Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com>, "public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org" <public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <5230FB6E.8030600@oracle.com>
Gregg, all, And to be clear... this most recent missive/sub-thread was about blinking carets/cursors and SC 2.3.1. The original question was about blinking carets/cursors and SC 2.2.2... And I think we've answered that question: in order to not fail SC 2.2.2, there must be a way to turn caret/cursor blinking off. Peter On 9/11/2013 4:21 PM, Gregg Vanderheiden wrote: >> it sounds like you’re saying that the Flash criteria apply to blinking > > It does and but you would always pass it. > > TECHNICALLY > the Flash provisions (and all provisions) apply to everything. > Including a blank page. > The question isn't whether they apply or not -- but whether the page > PASSES or SATISFIES the success criterion. > > So back to the cursor question > - to fail - > FIRST - something would have to flash or blink or whatever, more than > 3 times in a one second period. > I have never seen a cursor flash that fast. but I guess it is possible > SECOND - something that flashes more than three times in 1 second has > to ALSO be large enough to cover 40% of your central visual field. > This is pretty big. Much larger than any cursor. So SC 2.3.1 > would apply but you couldn’t fail SC 2.3.1 with any non-magnified > cursors -- even large ones. > > > >> I agree that the key issue seems to be that this blinking can be >> stopped somehow or that there are user agents available which don’t >> have the blinking behavior. > > Right > >> Thanks, >> AWK > > > > > /Gregg/ > -------------------------------------------------------- > Gregg Vanderheiden Ph.D. > Director Trace R&D Center > Professor Industrial & Systems Engineering > and Biomedical Engineering University of Wisconsin-Madison > Technical Director - Cloud4all Project - http://Cloud4all.info > Co-Director, Raising the Floor - International - > http://Raisingthefloor.org > and the Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure Project - http://GPII.net > > On Sep 11, 2013, at 11:17 AM, Andrew Kirkpatrick <akirkpat@adobe.com > <mailto:akirkpat@adobe.com>> wrote: > >> Also not speaking for the WG, but it sounds like you’re saying that >> the Flash criteria apply to blinking and I don’t read it that way. >> The note in the blink definition says: >> /Note: See also flash. It is possible for something to be large >> enough and blink brightly enough at the right frequency to be also >> classified as a flash./ >> I agree that the key issue seems to be that this blinking can be >> stopped somehow or that there are user agents available which don’t >> have the blinking behavior. >> Thanks, >> AWK >> Andrew Kirkpatrick >> Group Product Manager, Accessibility >> Adobe Systems >> akirkpat@adobe.com <mailto:akirkpatrick@adobe.com> >> http://twitter.com/awkawk >> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility >> *From:*Gregg Vanderheiden [mailto:gv@trace.wisc.edu >> <http://trace.wisc.edu>] >> *Sent:*Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:58 AM >> *To:*Peter Korn >> *Cc:*public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org <mailto:public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org> >> *Subject:*Re: A question has come up about SC 2.2.2 & the blinking >> caret/cursor... >> [The comments below are my opinion - and not official findings of >> WCAG WG. Gregg Van -_ex_co-chair of WCAG WG] >> The caret would never be a problem with 2.3.1. since a) it would >> have to blink more than 3 times in any one second period (which I >> have never seen) or else it automatically passes and b) it would >> have to occupy more than 40% of the area subtended by the eye (10 >> degrees) -- as normally displayed on a 1024 x 768 15 inch screen. >> (See definition in WCAG 2.0). So you are correct Peter - a >> blinking text caret/cursor would never fail 2.3.1 with any caret that >> I have ever seen or could imagine -- even if you did create one that >> blinked more than 3 times a second (which would drive me to >> distraction). >> However -- one of the reason for the provision, is that blinking >> content can be a distraction for some people that prevents them from >> focusing. And small blinking objects can do this as well as large. >> In fact the reason the cursor blinks is specifically so that it will >> catch your eye. >> The normal way to solve this is to provide a way for the cursor to >> be made to not blink. A non-blinking cursor option. >> NOTE: if the blinking cursor is part of the browser (and not actually >> something created, and blinked, by the web page content) then it is >> up to the browser not the web page to provide the non-blinking option. >> For software it is a bit different I think. If the system cursor >> blinks, and it is known that there is no option to turn it off, the >> preferences/settings of the application could provide such an option. >> Clearly however, the place that this should be fixed is by providing >> a non-blinking cursor option in the system control panel -- where >> other cursor options are provided. >> In the case you cite (the terminal window) it is not clear what kind >> of terminal you mean - or whether this is a (terminal) application >> generated cursor or a system cursor. But the above would apply. >> And finally, yes - I think that something to this effect should be in >> understanding doc -- at least for web pages. Not sure we can say >> much about software in the Understanding WCAG 2.0 -- but something >> like about the OS could be. >> Maybe something like >> "Note: a blinking text caret/cursor is specifically designed to catch >> the attention of the user, and would fall under this provision. >> However, if the caret/cursor is not generated by the content, but if >> it is a system or browser generated cursor, it is the browser or >> system that should provide the option to turn it off so that it does >> not blink for the user on all pages (or applications). " >> Gregg Van >> >> *From:*Peter Korn [mailto:peter.korn@oracle.com <http://oracle.com>] >> *Sent:*Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:18 PM >> *To:*public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org <mailto:public-wcag2ict-tf@w3.org> >> *Subject:*A question has come up about SC 2.2.2 & the blinking >> caret/cursor... >> Hi gang, >> >> As we are digesting WCAG2ICT's guidance internally at Oracle, a >> question came up about whether and howSC 2.2.2: Pause, Stop, Hide >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/#time-limits-pause>should be >> applied to the blinking text caret/cursor in a terminal window >> (or the actual machine console). >> >> We presume that the blinking text caret/cursor is too small a >> blinking/flashing region to trigger2.3.1 Three Flashes or Below >> Threshold >> <http://www.w3.org/TR/wcag2ict/#seizure-does-not-violate>, but >> that is addressing a different concern. >> >> >> Should a blinking text caret/cursor be a violation of 2.2.2? Or >> is what is blinking not "information"? Or is the blinking >> "essential"? Or is perhaps the blinking area small enough that >> it doesn't serve as a significant distraction (since it's not a >> problem on a console for a console screen reader or magnifier), >> that we might appropriately add language to Understanding to >> essentially exempt that behavior? >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Peter >> -- >> <image001.gif> <http://www.oracle.com> >> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal >> Phone:+1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522> >> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94065 >> <image002.gif> <http://www.oracle.com/commitment>Oracle is >> committed to developing practices and products that help protect >> the environment >> > -- Oracle <http://www.oracle.com> Peter Korn | Accessibility Principal Phone: +1 650 5069522 <tel:+1%20650%205069522> 500 Oracle Parkway | Redwood City, CA 94064 Green Oracle <http://www.oracle.com/commitment> Oracle is committed to developing practices and products that help protect the environment
Received on Wednesday, 11 September 2013 23:24:11 UTC