- From: Roberto Scano - IWA/HWG <rscano@iwa-italy.org>
- Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 10:32:10 +0200
- To: "'Wendy Chisholm'" <wendy@w3.org>, <public-wcag-teamb@w3.org>
For action item 3 (John):
Yesterday I've checked with a HTML WG Member and he said that is not
possible to have multiple values for xml:lang in XHTML 1.1 and in XHTML 2.0
Also similar problem for hreflang. BTW? Have we considered the use of
hreflang somewhere in our documents?
-----Original Message-----
From: public-wcag-teamb-request@w3.org
[mailto:public-wcag-teamb-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Wendy Chisholm
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2005 6:28 PM
To: public-wcag-teamb@w3.org
Subject: minutes from today (team b)
Available at: <http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html>
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
WCAG WG Team B (task force)
14 Sep 2005
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-irc
Attendees
Present
Wendy Chisholm, Yvette_Hoitink, Diane_Stottlemyer,
Roberto_Scano, Becky_Gibson, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, John_Slatin,
Bengt_Farre, Lisa Seeman
Regrets
Chair
wendy
Scribe
wendy
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]defn of abbreviationa and acronym
2. [5]specifying language
3. [6]definition list proposal
4. [7]definitions related to l3sc5
* [8]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________________
defn of abbreviationa and acronym
<rscano> suggest:
[9]http://www.google.it/search?q=define:acronym&hl=it&lr=&defl=en
[9] http://www.google.it/search?q=define:acronym&hl=it&lr=&defl=en
<rscano> An abbreviation of the first letters of a phrase or the long
name of an organization that forms a word or conveys a message. In
electronic communication or online documents, acronyms are used as
writing shorthand or a method to communicate humor. Examples include
IMHO (in my humble opinion), F2F (face-to-face), and WYSIWYG (what you
see is what you get). See
[10]http://www.marshall.edu/isp/ct107/emoticons.html for an online
reference to frequently-used acronyms
[10] http://www.marshall.edu/isp/ct107/emoticons.html
<rscano> www.csus.edu/uccs/training/online/glossary.htm
<rscano> what about cases of words that are inside dictionary like:
<ACRONYM TITLE="radio
<rscano> detecting and ranging">radar</ACRONYM> ?
some cases don't need to mark - AM, PM, RADAR, TV
proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific
definitions of words used in an unusual or restricted way, including
idioms, jargon, acronyms, and abbreviations. (include acronyms?
"deprecate" going forward?)
remove "acronym" since an HTML element
proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific
definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms,
jargon, and abbreviations. remove unusual because not testable.
include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded
(e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in
an english passage)
unusual - what about irony? sarcasm? ambiguity?
covered under "restricted" because restricting definition to a
particular one.
proposed - A mechanism is available for identifying specific
definitions of words used in an restricted way, including idioms,
jargon, and abbreviations. remove unusual because not testable.
include abbreviations because some are more confusing if expanded
(e.g., RADAR or AM, similar to not marking up "rendevous" as french in
an english passage)
restricted way - there are times when a word has multiple defns and as
an author, only one of those makes is useful for what i want to say.
lisa is against removing word unusual
<scribe> ACTION: becky and john work on wording of SC and definitions
of abbreviation and acronym [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action01]
<scribe> ACTION: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's
and send to list. [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action02]
specifying language
if HTMl 4.01, use just lang
if XHTML and serve as text/html, use both lang and xml:lang
if XHTML serve as application/xhtml+xml, just xml:lang
advisory for http and meta - but not consistently suppoted
meta only way to provide multiple primary languages as comma sep list
are the 3 choices above (based on "flavor") the 3 sufficient
techniqeus?
can have a comma-sep list of langs in xml:lang?
what about html 3.2 and lower? if can't spec language, can't use to
conform?
what about flash?
PDF does support a lang attribute
<rscano> <!ENTITY % i18n
<rscano> "lang %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED
<rscano> xml:lang %LanguageCode; #IMPLIED
<rscano> dir (ltr|rtl) #IMPLIED"
<rscano> >
<rscano> for action 3, for XHTML 1.0:
<rscano> <!-- internationalization attributes
<rscano> lang language code (backwards compatible)
<rscano> xml:lang language code (as per XML 1.0 spec)
<rscano> dir direction for weak/neutral text
<rscano> -->
<rscano> language code <> language "codes" so is not possible to have
xml:lang="it, en, ..."
<scribe> ACTION: john determine if can use comma-separate list in
xml:lang (can't in XML 1.0, but possible can in XML 1.1) [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action03]
<scribe> ACTION: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for
identifying language [recorded in
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action04]
definition list proposal
[15]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-
0013/definitionlist-html-technique.htm
[15]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0013/defin
itionlist-html-technique.htm
task should say "use the defn list elements to provide
definitions/define words"
think that language codes is possible xml 1.1
otherwise, resolution: adopt the technique
<rscano> from a HTML WG Member (in MSN): dl are not deprecated in
XHTML 2.0
[16]http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xhtml2-20040722/mod-list.html#edef_li
st_dl
[16]
http://www.w3.org/TR/2004/WD-xhtml2-20040722/mod-list.html#edef_list_dl
<rscano> also as been extended with "nl"
definitions related to l3sc5
[17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-
0043/gdoc_31l3sc5_alternatives_2005-09-12.htm
[17]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-teamb/2005Sep/att-0043/gdoc_
31l3sc5_alternatives_2005-09-12.htm
resolution: propose - supplement Additional content that illustrates
or clarifies default text content, which users may use instead of or
in addition to the default text content. For example, there may be
supplements in text, graphics, and audio.
... propose - Education level Years of school completed, or highest
degree achieved.
... propose - Upper secondary education level - the approximate 3 year
time period that typically begins at ages 15 or 16 usually after 9
years of full-time education according to the International Standard
Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997).
... propose - Primary education level - the approximate 6 year time
period that typically begins at ages 5, 6, or 7 possibly without any
previous education, according to the International Standard
Classification of Education (UNESCO, 1997).
may be issues with the wording of the SC - need some clarification.
trigger could be "requires reading level above.." and get rid of
ambiguity that falls within upper secondary. "when text requires
reading ability above the lower secondary education level"
<scribe> ACTION: john defn for lower secondary education level
[recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action06]
<scribe> ACTION: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call
[recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action07]
<scribe> ACTION: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for
team for discussion. [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action08]
<scribe> ACTION: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next
steps. some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on
guides. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action09]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: becky and john work on wording of SC and defn of
abbreviation and acronym [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: becky write up the 3 sufficient techniques for
identifying language [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: john defn for lower secondary education level [recorded
in [24]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action06]
[NEW] ACTION: john determine if can use comma-separate list in
xml:lang (xml 1.1) [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: roberto combine bidirectional text posts with lisa's and
send to list. [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: wendy follow-up w/folks re: action items and next steps.
some folks may focus on techs for other guidelines, others on guides.
[recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action09]
[NEW] ACTION: wendy survey of definitions for thursday's call
[recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action07]
[NEW] ACTION: wendy survey of other techniques and proposals for team
for discussion. [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/09/14-wcag-teamb-minutes.html#action08]
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________________
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_________________________________________________________________
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2005 08:32:45 UTC