- From: Michael S Elledge <elledge@msu.edu>
- Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2011 09:53:00 -0400
- To: Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>
- Cc: Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de>, "public-wai-evaltf@w3.org" <public-wai-evaltf@w3.org>
Hi all-- I'm not sure what is meant by a controlled test design. Is this the same as a test protocol? Also, when we are talking about objectivity, are we saying that a method must lead to an unbiased result, that the reviewer must be unbiased, our criteria are not subjective, or all three? A bit confused. Mike On Sep 15, 2011, at 4:24 AM, Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com > wrote: > Hi Derlev, all, > > because one can not be sure about 100 percent objectivity a Test > Design should be a controlled test design. In our case - we haven't > decided about the Approach - this can happen for example over the > amount of pages or the amount of pages per SC. Also with other > Deskriptions for Testing Procedures. > > Best > > Kerstin > > Via Mobile > > Am 15.09.2011 um 07:39 schrieb Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de>: > >> Quoting Kerstin Probiesch <k.probiesch@googlemail.com>: >> >>> Central question: >>> >>> Do we want that a tester can manipulate the results? >> >> DF: of course not, but this cannot be ensured by objectivity >> (whatever that would mean in practice) but only by some measure of >> quality control: a second tester or independent verification of >> results (also, verification of the adequacy of the page sample) >>> >>> I don't mean the case that something was overlooked but the case >>> that something was willingly overlooked. Or the other Way round. >> >> DF: Well, if someone wants to distort results there will probably >> always ways to do that, I would not start from that assumption. Is >> one imperfect or missing alt attributes TRUE or FALSE for SC 1.1.1 >> applied to the entire page? What about a less than perfect heading >> structure? etc, etc. There is, "objectively", always leeway, room >> for interpretation, and I think we unfortunately DO need agreement >> with reference to cases / examples that set out a model for how >> they should be rated. >>> >>> If not we need Objectivity as a Requirement. Just Agreement on >>> something is not enough. >> >> DF: Can you explain what in your view the requirement of >> "objectivity" should entail *in practice*, as part of the test >> procedure the methodology defines? >> >>> >>> And again: No Objectivity - no standardized methodology. >>> >>> Kerstin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Via Mobile >>> >>> Am 14.09.2011 um 12:09 schrieb Detlev Fischer <fischer@dias.de>: >>> >>>> DF: Just one point on objective, objectivity: >>>> This is not an easy concept - it relies on a proof protocol. For >>>> example, you would *map* a page instance tested to a documented >>>> inventory of model cases to establish how you should rate it >>>> against a particular SC. Often this is easy, but there are many >>>> "not ideal" cases to be dealt with. >>>> So "objective" sounds nice but it does not remove the problem >>>> that there will be cases that do not fit the protocol, at which >>>> point a human (or group, community) will have to make an informed >>>> mapping decision or extend the protocol to include the new >>>> instance. I think "agreed interpretation" hits it nicely because >>>> there is the community element in it which is quite central to >>>> WCAG 2.0 (think of defining accessibility support) >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Detlev >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Comment (KP): I understand the Denis' arguments. The more I >>>>> think about >>>>> this: neither "unique interpretation" nor "agreed >>>>> interpretation" work very >>>>> well. I would like to suggest "Objective". Because of the >>>>> following reason: >>>>> It would be one of Criteria for the quality of tests and >>>>> includes Execution >>>>> objectivity, Analysis objectivity and Interpretation >>>>> objectivity. If we will >>>>> have in some cases 100% percent fine, if not we can discuss the >>>>> "tolerance". >>>>> I would suggest: >>>>> >>>>> (VC) I'm still contemplating this one. I can see both >>>>> arguments as plausible. >>>>> I'm okay with 'objectivity' but think it needs more explanation >>>>> i.e. who defines >>>>> how objective it is? >>>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> Detlev Fischer PhD >> DIAS GmbH - Daten, Informationssysteme und Analysen im Sozialen >> Geschäftsführung: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp >> >> Telefon: +49-40-43 18 75-25 >> Mobile: +49-157 7-170 73 84 >> Fax: +49-40-43 18 75-19 >> E-Mail: fischer@dias.de >> >> Anschrift: Schulterblatt 36, D-20357 Hamburg >> Amtsgericht Hamburg HRB 58 167 >> Geschäftsführer: Thomas Lilienthal, Michael Zapp >> --------------------------------------------------------------- >> >
Received on Thursday, 15 September 2011 13:53:40 UTC