W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-vocabs@w3.org > April 2015

Re: Schema for online dictionary and glossary?

From: Mo McRoberts <Mo.McRoberts@bbc.co.uk>
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:36:47 +0000
To: Peter Krauss <ppkrauss@gmail.com>
CC: "chaals@yandex-team.ru" <chaals@yandex-team.ru>, Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>, Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>, "Anastasia Baryshnikova" <asia.baryshnikova@gmail.com>, "public-vocabs@w3.org" <public-vocabs@w3.org>
Message-ID: <9036CB9D-0FCF-4EE9-86ED-A8ADAD45DBF3@bbc.co.uk>
I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of situations where URNs really are the best choice of identifier for a thing (although, for the record, we should of course all treat URIs are opaque wherever itís feasible to do so).

Dictionary words are a decidedly borderline case.

URNs might work for words used in a language, with no specific definition ascribed (e.g., urn:lex:en-gb:hello), or even the collection of Ďall words spoken by humansí ó which at least takes advantage of one of the nicer properties of URNs, that being that often nobody actually needs to define what the members of the set are, because they can be conjured through use.

However, as soon as you get into specific dictionaries or thesauri or even simple word-lists, then you have a arbitrary curatorial authority, and so there is pretty much zero benefit (and tangible downsides) to using a URN over an HTTP URI. The latter has the advantage of being dereferenceable with no hoop-jumping, but doesnít have to be (so long as you donít serve something *else* at those URIs, the sky doesnít fall in), so it amounts to an optional future-proofing mechanism via a protocol everyone knows how to talk.

M.

On  2015-Apr-13, at 15:10, Peter Krauss <ppkrauss@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry my english, I must say
>    "in my opinion... I think that the choose of URN  is possible, but is a semantic/technological subtlety ..."
> ... remembering  the context about this kind of choose.
>
> Please show here some examples of the "lot of ways..." that you are citing.
>
>
> 2015-04-13 10:59 GMT-03:00 <chaals@yandex-team.ru>:
> 13.04.2015, 12:05, "Peter Krauss" <ppkrauss@gmail.com>:
>> It is a semantic/technological subtlety... I think this kind of demand is better to fix by URNs,
>
> to be blunt, I don't think the URN approach is really relevant to schema.org. It breaks our approach, in a whole lot of ways...
>
> cheers
>
>> examples (suppose a "mydic" for "my dictionary URN schema"),
>>
>>   urn:mydic:en:mum
>>   urn:mydic:pt-br:mam„e
>>   urn:myterm:en:environment
>>   urn:myterm:pt-br:meio.ambiente
>>
>> the key to work with URNs and SchemaOrg is the URN-Resolver, see discussion at
>>
>>    https://github.com/schemaorg/schemaorg/issues/405#issuecomment-88501504
>>
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>> 2015-04-13 5:21 GMT-03:00 Bernard Vatant <bernard.vatant@mondeca.com>:
>> Anastasia
>>
>> Indeed schema.org currently lacks terms to describe linguistic / knowledge organization resources such as dictionaries. Maybe a future extension ...
>>
>> Meanwhile, you might wish to explore
>> http://lov.okfn.org/dataset/lov/vocabs?tag=Vocabularies
>> which provides some vocabularies designed to describe language and linguistic resources
>>
>> The first on the list, GOLD (http://purl.org/linguistics/gold) certainly provides expressivity beyond your needs.
>> Lexvo.org ontology (http://lexvo.org/ontology) is simpler and used in lexvo.org terminological data base.
>>
>> Hope that helps.
>>
>>
>> 2015-04-13 10:01 GMT+02:00 Dan Brickley <danbri@google.com>:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 13 Apr 2015 08:57 Anastasia Baryshnikova <asia.baryshnikova@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I've investigated the issue but I don't seem to be able to find a solution. I have an online dictionary where every term is linked to abbreviations, definitions and translations in other languages. How do I annotate them with microdata?
>> The closest thing I can think of is make every term a CreativeWork, with inLanguage property. But how do i link 2 terms that are translations of each other?
>>
>> Thanks a lot in advance!
>>
>>
>> If you mean schema.org, there is not a lot of vocab for this kind of thing yet. But you might read around Wordnet in RDF e.g. starting at http://wordnet-rdf.princeton.edu/
>>
>> Dan
>>
>>
>> Anastasia Baryshnikova
>> Crossdictionary.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bernard Vatant
>> Vocabularies & Data Engineering
>> Tel :  + 33 (0)9 71 48 84 59
>> Skype : bernard.vatant
>> http://google.com/+BernardVatant
>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Mondeca
>> 35 boulevard de Strasbourg 75010 Paris
>> www.mondeca.com
>> Follow us on Twitter : @mondecanews
>> ----------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
> chaals@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com
>
>


--
Mo McRoberts - Chief Technical Architect - Archives & Digital Public Space,
Zone 2.12, BBC Scotland, 40 Pacific Quay, Glasgow G51 1DA.

Inside the BBC? My movements this week: http://neva.li/where-is-mo








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Received on Monday, 13 April 2015 14:37:21 UTC

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