Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse

Most practically, could we be discussing labeled edges of a path in a graph?

On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Wes Turner <wes.turner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Regional variation and semantic differentiation!
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Course_%28education%29
>
> > In the United Kingdom, Australia and Singapore, a *course* is the
> entire programme of studies required to complete a university
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University> degree, and the word "unit" or
> "module" would be used to refer to an academic course in the North American
> sense.
>
> > In between the two, in South Africa, a course officially is the
> collection of all courses (in the American sense, these are often called
> "modules") over a year or semester, though the American usage is common. In
> the Philippines, a course can be an individual subject (usually referred to
> by faculty and school officials) or the entire programme (usually referred
> to by students and outsiders).
>
> ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Course_%28education%29#Types_of_courses
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Vicki
>>
>>  1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>
>>  > Can you give an example of this? It may be better to model these as
>> different types rather than trying to mash
>> > them together. The programmes type could then include the modules.
>>
>> I see from Stuart's comment on the Google doc that US Universities may do
>> this differently, and I mentioned before that terminology is difficult, so
>> I'll pick an example as close to home as possible, and I will use the terms
>> that we use and have used here.
>>
>> Heriot-Watt University advertises and enrols students into programmes
>> see http://www.hw.ac.uk/study/course-a-z.htm  for examples specifically
>> G400 Computer Science BSc
>> http://www.undergraduate.hw.ac.uk/programmes/G400/
>> G560 Information Systems BSc
>> http://www.undergraduate.hw.ac.uk/programmes/G560/
>> Information Technology (Business) MSc/Diploma
>> http://www.postgraduate.hw.ac.uk/prog/msc-information-technology-business-/
>> (At HW we call these programmes, but I think the most common term for
>> them in the UK is courses, the most common way for UK students to apply for
>> undergraduate study is through UCAS, http://search.ucas.com/ which calls
>> them courses).
>>
>> The Heriot-Watt Information Systems programme comprises several courses
>> (more generally known in the UK as modules or units). Students cannot sign
>> up for these unless they are enrolled on a relevant programme and so they
>> are not advertised externally in the same way, I don't know if you can see
>> the course handbook at
>> http://www.macs.hw.ac.uk/macshome/IS_UG_Handbook.pdf but is shows which
>> courses a student will take in each year / semester. For example
>> year 1 / semester 1
>> * F27SA software development 1
>> * F27IS Interactive systems
>> * F27PX Praxis
>> * F27TS Technology in Society
>> (if you cannot see the course handbook, there is similar information
>> available for the Manchester University Computer Science BSc available from
>>
>> http://www.cs.manchester.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/courses/computer-science/?code=00560&pg=options
>> they are similar to the courses that you have been using as examples.)
>>
>> Is that the sort of information that helps?
>>
>> Phil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>> *From:* Vicki Tardif Holland [vtardif@google.com]
>> *Sent:* 16 December 2014 14:28
>> *To:* Barker, Phil A
>> *Cc:* Wes Turner; GUANGYUAN PIAO; Thad Guidry; Aaron Bradley; Public
>> Vocabs
>> *Subject:* Re: [Proposal] schema:OnlineCourse
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 6:19 AM, Barker, Phil A <Phil.Barker@hw.ac.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  1. Courses can comprise Courses. This is especially important at
>>> Universities that recruit into and award certificates for programmes
>>> (Courses) that are built from modules (Courses).
>>>
>>
>>  Can you give an example of this? It may be better to model these as
>> different types rather than trying to mash them together. The programmes
>> type could then include the modules.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> 2. I don't think there is much to be gained from having a separate class
>>> on OnlineCourse rather than a property of a Course to flag whether it is
>>> online or not. I  think the properties you have for OnlineCourse also apply
>>> to regular courses. Most regular courses have an online component.
>>>
>>>
>>  Point taken. I think it is important to designate MOOCs from other
>> courses. I tend to prefer using subclasses instead of booleans as it is
>> easier to expand a subclass to include properties I missed the first time
>> around.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  3. I think it would be better to model an instance of a Course as a
>>> collection of EducationalEvents and CreativeWorks.
>>>
>>>
>>  The integration with Event is one of the places that needs refining.
>>
>>
>>
>>>  4. Language is difficult. The different usage between UK and US English
>>> is one thing, but more importantly commonly used terms often relate to
>>> specific education systems or pedagogies. So phrases like "instructors
>>> deliver lessons to students" implies a particular pedagogy. Also this means
>>> that common terms become ambiguous and open to misinterpretation in
>>> international use, e.g. class, course, programme, module. This is important
>>> in schema.org where definitions tend to be minimalist.
>>>
>>>
>>  Good point. I'll update the description to be more inclusive of other
>> educational systems.
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> As a general question, do you have some usecases in mind and target
>>> example websites? It's difficult to assess whether these properties are
>>> sufficient and realistic without those.
>>>
>>
>>  I'll update the document to include some of the sites I was using for
>> reference, but they were:
>>
>>  Coursera (The example came from
>> https://www.coursera.org/course/datascitoolbox)
>> MIT course catalog (http://student.mit.edu/catalog/m6a.html)
>> Stanford course catalog (https://explorecourses.stanford.edu)
>> edX (https://www.edx.org/)
>> Cambridge Center for Adult Education (http://www.ccae.org/)
>>
>>  - Vicki
>>
>>
>>   Vicki Tardif Holland | Ontologist | vtardif@google.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>