[MINUTES] VCWG Product and Wallet Vocabularies 2026-04-20

This meeting of the VCWG Product and Wallet Vocabularies working group
focused on understanding working group membership rules, intellectual
property considerations, and the onboarding of new members. The attendees
introduced themselves and their backgrounds, highlighting their expertise
in areas like knowledge graphs, LLMs, and semantic web technologies. A
significant portion of the discussion revolved around the W3C process for
publishing standards, including the creation of repositories, the use of
tools like respec, and the steps involved in moving from a working draft to
a W3C Recommendation. The group also touched upon the importance of
internationalization and horizontal reviews, and explored strategies for
recruiting more members and ensuring broader participation.

*Topics Covered:*

   - *Working Group Membership Rules:* The discussion clarified that only
   working group members can join calls, though exceptions can be made.
   - *Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) Considerations:* It was explained
   that W3C has an automatic IPR mechanism that kicks in when a First Public
   Working Draft is published, ensuring a legally safe environment for
   participants.
   - *W3C Membership and Working Group Joining Process:* The process of
   becoming a W3C member and subsequently joining a working group was
   detailed, involving formal membership, AC member nomination, and then
   specific individuals being added to task forces.
   - *Introductions of Attendees:* Carsten Stöcker, Ingo Wolf, Eva
   Blomqvist, and Ivan Herman introduced themselves, their company
   affiliations, and their relevant project and standardization experience.
   - *W3C Process for Document Publication:* Ivan Herman provided a
   comprehensive overview of the W3C publication process, from First Public
   Working Draft (FPWD) to Candidate Recommendation (CR) and finally to
   Recommendation, including the requirements for testing and reviews.
   - *Repository Setup and Document Structure:* The group discussed and
   provisionally agreed to start with a single repository for the task force,
   containing separate folders for the two documents, to simplify management.
   - *Tooling and Standards for Document Development:* The use of respec.org
   for document authoring was confirmed, with attendees sharing examples of
   existing work using this tool.
   - *Recruitment and Outreach for New Members:* Strategies for recruiting
   more members, particularly from Asia and other international regions, were
   discussed, including leveraging existing contacts and W3C's global teams.
   - *Maturity of Existing Work:* The maturity of current work on wallet
   and DPP vocabularies was assessed, identifying that while significant
   progress has been made, gaps still exist that the working group will
   address.
   - *Horizontal Reviews:* The importance and process of horizontal reviews
   (internationalization, accessibility, security, privacy) were highlighted
   as crucial steps towards publication.

*Action Items:*

   - Ivan Herman to set up a W3C repository for the task force, likely with
   two folders for the separate documents, once a name is provided.
   - The group needs to actively recruit more members and ensure their
   participation in upcoming calls, especially those with international reach.
   - Further outreach efforts will be made to engage companies and
   organizations, particularly in Asia, to join the working group or
   contribute.
   - The group will work on defining clear test cases and implementation
   requirements for the Candidate Recommendation phase.
   - The editors will need to familiarize themselves with W3C processes,
   GitHub, and the respec tool, with shared resources provided.
   - The task force will need to consider potential session proposals for
   events like the Global Digital Collaboration Conference.

HTML:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-vcwg-product-and-wallet-vocabularies-2026-04-20.html

Video:
https://meet.w3c-ccg.org/archives/w3c-vcwg-product-and-wallet-vocabularies-2026-04-20.mp4

[image: W3C] <https://www.w3.org/>
VCWG Product and Wallet Vocabularies 20 April 2026 Attendees

Present

Carsten Stöcker, Eva Blomqvist, Fireflies.ai Notetaker Miguel, Ingo Wolf,
Ivan Herman, Phil Archer

Regrets

-

Chair

-

Scribe

transcriber
Contents

   1. Working Group Membership Rules <#c0fe>
   2. Intellectual Property Rights Considerations <#9a21>
   3. Carsten Stöcker Introduction and Company Focus <#e9d1>
   4. Ingo Wolf Introduction and Background <#56d5>
   5. Eva Blomqvist Introduction and Project Experience <#137e>
   6. Ivan Herman Introduction and W3C Role <#fe43>

Meeting minutes

Carsten Stöcker: Hi Eva.

Eva Blomqvist: Hi. …

Carsten Stöcker: How's life?

Eva Blomqvist: I'm in a bar.

Carsten Stöcker: And…

Fireflies.ai Notetaker Miguel> Miguel Ángel invited Fireflies.ai here to
record & take notes. By continuing, you agree to
https://fireflies.ai/privacy>.

Eva Blomqvist: That's good.

Carsten Stöcker: a B. Yeah. No worries.

Eva Blomqvist: Yeah, I'm in Warso for cost action meeting. And the meeting
ended, so I'm in a bar now to so hopefully or rather if there's a lot of
background noise, why. No, in Poland.

Carsten Stöcker: No worries. In which country are you in? Sweden or where
are you? In Poland. Very Then let's see who's joining. Just the two of us
plus a noteaker.

Eva Blomqvist: Elite crowd.

Carsten Stöcker: Let's see a cost action meeting. are you budget planning
or what is cost action meeting?

Eva Blomqvist: It's this European project which is a networking project.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay.

Eva Blomqvist: So this is on knowledge graphs and LLMs and…

Ivan Herman: Hello.

Eva Blomqvist: and the interaction between those.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah.

Eva Blomqvist: Yes. Yeah,

Carsten Stöcker: Very nice. so we are blending the AI with trust
infrastructure. Maybe that's also something if we might want to pick up…

Ingo Wolf: Hello.

Carsten Stöcker: because we think that the EOS 2.0 and the trust
infrastructure is a pretty interesting topic to combine it with for
regulated industries but it's another topic. an. Hi Ingram. Cool. But I
guess we still wait with introduction and… Carsten Stöcker:

Eva Blomqvist: I was telling Ken I'm in a bar so…

Eva Blomqvist: if there's a lot of background noise it's

Carsten Stöcker: with a bit of the planning,…
Working Group Membership Rules

Carsten Stöcker: maybe some housekeeping. even who Can anybody join or is
it restricted W3C member or contributors or distinguished experts? So how
does work because a lot of people want to join and I don't know about the
rules here.

Ivan Herman: The rules are that this is part of a working group and…

Ivan Herman: that means only working group members can join.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: There is no tool that would prevent somebody to join to be
honest. It's a little bit the responsibility of the chair to control that.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay.

Ivan Herman: And of course for whatever reason we have the possibility to
invite someone to a given call. So it's not like the brick wall around it.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: But this is the rule.

Carsten Stöcker: Good to understand…

Carsten Stöcker: because I thought everyone can join but this makes it
simpler because a lot of people may be interested and then here we have 20
people and nothing works. Yeah. yes.

Ivan Herman: Yeah. and…
Intellectual Property Rights Considerations

Ivan Herman: the other post problem is that and that's one of the reasons
why we have these kind of rules is IPR protection.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Yeah. We need to sort this out. So Rio mentioned we
have to do APR wavers because we working on vocabul. I don't know even
there's much IP in vocabulary…

Carsten Stöcker: but we are happy to sign any waver that's required.

Ivan Herman: for vocabulary the whole IPR question is I would say obvious…

Ivan Herman: but the rules are not made for the vocabularies only…

Carsten Stöcker: …

Carsten Stöcker: we wave it and it's fine.

Ivan Herman: but we don't have to do anything really when we publish a
first public working draft then there is an automatic mechanism that will
contact all members of the group to say if they are on something they have
to do something etc.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay.

Ivan Herman: So that's sort of automatic.

Carsten Stöcker: Yep. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: But it happens but the really reason is that if you are on the
call then you are in a sort of a safe environment in this respect in a
legal and IPR situation and that's what really counts and that's why it's
there. No that's about…

Carsten Stöcker: And how does a company get the working member?

Carsten Stöcker: For example, Bunes and Saga would like to join W3C and
then they can say, "Hey, I would like to be part of the VC working group."
And then they can join us or how does it work?

Ivan Herman: what you did what you just said.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay, cool.

Ivan Herman: So the formally what happens is that when you become a member
Carson you are not yet a member by the way we are breaking the rules for
today you have I have no idea don't even ask I mean I am not involved with
that the only problem is that there is now a two days meeting of the many
large part of the team in China right now and…

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, I don't know what's the problem is because I bought
Emma. Okay.

Ivan Herman: so these days nothing will I know that the rules we have is
that the membership is officially put in our system when the payment is

Carsten Stöcker: No, because I signed the membership thing two times. I
don't know why two times, and I didn't see an invoice. Maybe someone needs
to send an invoice and we need to pay, but I haven't seen it. I'm follow
up. No. …

Ivan Herman: done and what I presume is that the payment has not been done
but I don't know what and how and where you have to go to Emma you were in
contact with Emma and…

Carsten Stöcker: I even didn't see an invoice, but this doesn't mean
anything. We need to find out. Yes, that's Yeah.

Ivan Herman: she is the one who do that was a separate thing I just wanted
to make it sure …

Carsten Stöcker: No, I just

Ivan Herman: what was I beginning to say I'm too old to remember
everything. the mechanism for joining. So once you are a member then you
will have to nominate an advisory committee member who represents the
institution. the instit member has to say that the company joins the
working group, as an institution and…

Ivan Herman: then the AC also nominates persons who are employees or
associates or whatever to the institution and…

Carsten Stöcker: H. Okay.

Ivan Herman: that person is then joined and added for the time being for a
specific task force. So this one to join the task force you have to send me
an email with your email address. the system team is working on putting a
simple join button for members so that you can do it yourself. But for the
time being, I act as a button.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. But let's see. I think Ingo maybe we are complete
now. We should do an introduction. Yeah. Not sure if we should do it now or
not. We're complete.

Ivan Herman: Yeah I mean Caroline said that she is not available today and
film late.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, I don't know…

Ivan Herman: I don't know whether you guys expect anybody else. Susanna she
is an invited expert Ava is also an invited expert.

Carsten Stöcker: because the Z is also not WC member. I don't know how it
works.

Ingo Wolf: Okay.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay, then it works. Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: So that's okay.

Carsten Stöcker: Maybe you can yeah…
Carsten Stöcker Introduction and Company Focus

Carsten Stöcker: then just do an introduction because even I think we have
met but you don't know English should we do quick introduction and me from
okay maybe I start. So my name is caster founder of atity we have worked
with rebooting web of trust maybe for seven years or six years.

Ivan Herman: Sir, we

Carsten Stöcker: So I know a lot of people Manus Bourne yourself then
whatever Brent Sunund I think I know him from the WCC did working group and
that's bit and at we do two things we do legal person identity and digital
product passport and there's convergence between legal person identity
business wallets and digital product passports and it's also worth to say
in Europe there's a lot of experimentation

Carsten Stöcker: because Europe decided that these are the core pillars of
any digital infrastructure for business to government and B2B the business
wallets and the DPPs for that reason there's insane amount of
standardization going on and whatever in terms of both things the semantics
are key components we think it needs to be pushed to W3C to have more an
international view not European view…

Ivan Herman: Mhm.

Carsten Stöcker: but what's also interesting that people started to blend
it with other W3C standards So of course the verifiable credential
standards but also decad and ODIL. Yeah. So there's a lot of work
especially for credentials and ODL to blend this together and I have not
seen it before but the industry here in Europe you already using this in
production ODL and WCC credentials with the wallets but of course they have
done it on their own.

Carsten Stöcker: there's no W3C kind of whatever transfer into W3C and we
to work on the business models. Caroline will more work on the DPPS from
the semantic perspective as a company. We also work on the DPSPs but
Caroline is leading this and we are also working with European business
registries the Norwegian the Dutch the French and…

Ingo Wolf: French.

Carsten Stöcker: some other Swedish and so we're working with them and for
us it's really important that we first think about inheriting the legal
proof of existence of a company from a business register in a wallet so can
be from a government registry but can also be from a GLY registry. Then to
this is what for us it's a secondary identifier.

Carsten Stöcker: The primary is always derived from a legal proof of
existence. But that's just not only my terminology. But from whatever
industry domain registries, we also can inherit something. But that's the
idea to focus on the master data first and then of course this could be
extended to all kind of other stuff. And from our perspective is also that
anti-money laundering is the platinum reference standards for authent for
checking master data. So we have done a lot of work in Europe kind of
describing company company master data to fulfill anti-moneyaundering
requirements and this is also kind of universally globally.

Carsten Stöcker: Of course in Europe maybe you go deeper than in Hong Kong
or whatever but in principle this is kind of universally and for that
reason we think it's a good start and at some point in time there will be
the intersections of DPSPs and…

Carsten Stöcker: business wallets but that's something for later to put
some dedicated work in this working group on this. And Ingo do you want to
proceed?
Ingo Wolf Introduction and Background

Ingo Wolf: Yeah, sure.

Ingo Wolf: Maybe first to my person. So, Engle Wolf is my name. I am head
of engineering at Spherity since April of last year. before I have 25 years
of professional experience in other companies 12 years before I was working
for the German health sector public health services. So we set up an open
ID federation basically for all the insurance company offering services to
German citizens and before that I was 13 years at research and development
of Deutsche Telecom. at that time I participated also in standardization
activities in the multimedia sector.

Ingo Wolf: So I was part of the moving pictures experts group at ISO
standardization for eight years working mainly on multimedia metadata. So I
had some exposure to digital management rights expression languages. At
that time there was also the competition between ODRL and rights expression
language from content guard which made the race at that point in time. so
yeah I'm quite happy that ODRL is picked up now as an more open alternative
to this and I studied electrotechnical engineering at technical university
of Berlin and graduated in 2000.

Ivan Herman: Okay. Eva

Ingo Wolf: So that's a quick summary of mine. feel free to ask any further
questions.
Eva Blomqvist Introduction and Project Experience

Eva Blomqvist: So Blumquist, professor of computer science at Lin Shopping
University in Sweden. worked with ontology applications and so forth for
past 25 years. And about five six years ago some companies came to us and
said look this whole thing with circular economy and product passports we
need ontologies here.

Eva Blomqvist: So I'm not originally an expert in that field but since then
I've coordinated one European project on the topic and we have several
national projects as well on DPSPs where of course standardization is a big
part and we developed together with people from SIPAS I wasn't involved in
Silas myself but together with people from there we developed some initial
drafts for DPP ontologies and then at some point now Caroline got me on the
hook and said you need to be involved here and dragged me into this
basically and hopefully my experience from the past five years can
contribute something to these discussions. I mean I really think that it's
very important to have some standardization.

Eva Blomqvist: We see it in Sweden a lot that there are so many things
popping up and everyone has their own solution and so forth. So it's really
urgent things to be discussed I think. So I'm happy to be here contributing
whatever I can. Then of course I'm sort of doing this in my spare time as I
think I said in the general meeting that don't have a lot of time…

Eva Blomqvist: but I will try to contribute as much as I can. Yes. No.

Carsten Stöcker: And if…

Carsten Stöcker: are you so Caroline was talking about she's hiring an
ontology team. are you leading this team? Are you supporting it? Yeah. Okay.

Eva Blomqvist: I mean I can morally support but no I'm not concretely
involved in that.

Eva Blomqvist: Yes, she told me something like this as well but I don't
know any details of that.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay, cool.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, but I think it goes beyond WC, but we're working
with a lot of people in Sweden and they are also interested in the same
stuff. Maybe we can kind of convince them to be WC members such as Box. So,
the Swedish company registry,…

Eva Blomqvist: Yep, definitely.

Carsten Stöcker: but it's also something maybe to follow up. cool. Mhm.
Ivan Herman Introduction and W3C Role

Ivan Herman: Okay, I guess…

Ivan Herman: then I am the last one. So my name is Ivan Herman. and I am
originally a mathematician. So I got my university degree at the University
of Purapest in Hary. long time ago in the 70s but then I turned into
computer science. I worked in research in Hungary for a few years and then
I left the country for reasons that we can imagine. I spent several years
in Munich in a software house. Then I ended up in Amsterdam where I spent
30 odd years.

Ivan Herman: I was a researcher at the research institute in Amsterdam
computer science and then in 2001 I joined the W3C team remaining in the
Netherlands but I joined the W3C team for a first few years I was doing
more in the communication area not in the technical part but then in 200
seven I guess I took over and I was the activity lead as we called it back
then for semantic web. So I was the one who coordinated all the work done
about RDF and owl and shako and god knows what else including the RL by the
way at the time.

Ivan Herman: Then in the 2010 decade I also took up something else which is
digital publishing.

Ivan Herman: So I am sort of dividing up my time between verify your
credentials and EUB. I am that's…

Carsten Stöcker: What is this?

Carsten Stöcker: What is EUP?

Ingo Wolf: the e standardized ebook format. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: if you read a digital book let's say in Apple or Kindle or
whatever and the format is EOP and it's ebook format and that's something
that is now a WBC standard I am also active in that area and co-editor of
the standard itself by now I am formally retired So I moved to France and I
am in the house of France now and I am an emiritis member of the team as
they call it. which is not something which is relevant to you because I
take verify credential and ep side by side.

Carsten Stöcker: Great.

Ivan Herman: That's all I do. All the administrative things at W3C I keep
away from it and I can because I'm an ameritus. So that's the advantage. so
I have two roles in a way on the one hand I am the staff contact so I work
strong very closely with the two chairs on managing the group but they are
really the managers I'm more the active problem solver if we have to create
a repository for our work or whatever and I know also

Ivan Herman: the W3C process. So this is one of my main roles but I take
part in the technical work as well. So I am editor of the BCDM because I
contributed a lot because I have my past in semantic web. So I am the
guardian of link data principles and technology in the group. I'm not the
only one but I am one of the guardians which of course is relevant for this
task force as well because now you said one thing Carson that companies use
VCDM and…

Carsten Stöcker: Absolutely. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: and ODRL together without getting to W3C but they have
absolutely the right to do So there is you said that as…

Carsten Stöcker: I know not against it.

Ivan Herman: if it was a mistake. It is not an even I would rather say that
we don't have anything to do except that you probably hit this problem that
there is VCDM as we use it in JSON LD and there

Carsten Stöcker: No, no, no, no. I think there's some work to be done maybe
that you guys are not aware and I think there's a gap to close the
experience here to link it to what you guys are doing and then to build
upon this together. This was my point.

Ivan Herman: is a VCBM thing that IETF is developing who are keeping away
from JSON and…

Carsten Stöcker: Mhm.

Ivan Herman: one of the argument that we always say which I believe is true
so it's not just an argument in the air is that the VCDM of W3C being in
JSON LD has the story of extension built in and has a story of extension
distributed wise so you don't have to register an extension anywhere.

Ivan Herman: You just use another vocabulary together with what's there.
You add the context f to the RL and that's all you have to do.

Carsten Stöcker: Can I show you something?

Ivan Herman: So if that's what they do absolutely go on you can share some
I guess.

Carsten Stöcker: Do you mind if I show you something? Because I'm very very
like a lot. Do you mind if I show you the ODL piece? Yeah.

Carsten Stöcker: So this is what we are doing here in maybe you see it now
it's German but anyway in the end it's no…

Ivan Herman: No I understand German not

Carsten Stöcker: and if I maybe can also speak some German so this is in
English and this is how policy is being defined yeah and here is a policy
to access smart meter reading policy and…

Ivan Herman: Yeah, that's all.

Carsten Stöcker: then they said hey there's permissions and this is how
they describe their policy yeah and here's the end and what's really really
cool and no one has solved this is okay you can have a business identity
and some business identity credentials but here in the energy sector they
go beyond they have market role credentials yeah okay hey market role
credential yeah it's not a big thing you can do this technology but the big
thing here is there's a full market role governance registry

Carsten Stöcker: the market roles are being monitored in the energy sector
and if a company is then kind of there changes to the market roles then the
market role is being revoked and this is what we like a lot the combination
of wallets vifable credentials and JSON ID the order and the market role
governance and…

Ingo Wolf: Jesus.

Carsten Stöcker: that's because the governance part is also very tough the
market role governance and this is something that's kind of being worked on
in the energy this sector here.

Ivan Herman: Right. …

Ivan Herman: but then again I mean the fact that this is done is exactly
why we use JSON LD.

Carsten Stöcker: Yes. And why we standardize it. Yeah. And I think but what
we would like to do in the business vocabulary to also talk a bit about
market roles. Yeah. That there is some sort of market role vocabulary very
simple one. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: Yeah. I have no idea about the details of market role and…

Carsten Stöcker: It is no voice.

Ivan Herman: all these things. So just to be clear I don't come here with
the knowledge of how should I say the area. so I cannot participate in any
discussion about that but I can always shout if something is wrong in terms
of JSON or in a vocabulary structure in general and…

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Excellent.

Ivan Herman: I will always shout if things become too complicated…

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. yes.

Ivan Herman: because ODRL is quite a large vocabulary and I don't know
whether we want to use everything or whether it's worth having the whole
thing. So it's one of the balance act to find with any vocabulary to see
expressive enough…

Carsten Stöcker: No, it's now we have the same problem with the business
wallet vocabulary when we look into AML…

Ivan Herman: but not too expressive simple enough but not too simplistic
etc.

Carsten Stöcker: then it's a lot of vocabulary company structures ultimate
beneficial owners legal representatives parent child relationships and all
of this but that's what we are working on maybe have to reduce it But at
least that's what we're working on our side. And it's very important
because we have to beat the S The SD Jot people, they're really pushing
hard. They're really struggling to put the identity card in SDJVC or an SDJ
on their smartphone wallets and they try to push that technology to
business wallets.

Carsten Stöcker: But business wallets is semantically rich and the
smartphone wallet people are already struggling with 10 attributes in an
identity card and for that reason this is also from our ecosystem
perspective very important that the work being done now on WCC because the
industry has semantic rich data and they're using all the WC credentials
and then other people are trying kind of to put blockers and to push the SD
jots and that's also bit why we think the WCC has a lot of visibility

Carsten Stöcker: It makes sense to standardize it.

Ivan Herman: That's unfortunately the ugly story…

Ivan Herman: which we have to deal with this whole ST jot versus and
actually ST Jot SD Jot is not the verify credential pariet…

Carsten Stöcker: Nice to see.

Ivan Herman: because we can use SD jot as so it's not necessary to move to
their stuff…

Carsten Stöcker: Mhm. No.

Ivan Herman: but let's not go there it's a sad story but that happens can
we see some practicalities I mean I know we are only four of us and I hope
at least that the task force will become bigger than that yeah 90% I sent
you a mayor Carson I believe…

Carsten Stöcker: Yes. The question is how aggressively should we recruit
people? Yeah.

Carsten Stöcker: Mhm. No. Mhm.

Ivan Herman: where I listed the members who are now participating in the
task force as far as I'm concerned. The only addition since then is
Caroline because Caroline came in through the invited expert mechanism and
she has joined the working group two hours ago. so he's also on the list
now. But we have to have these people if possible actively on these calls
because otherwise it will not work.

Ivan Herman: The practicalities that we still have to agree upon is first
of all I presume the goal is to develop two documents right or two
vocabularies I don't know how documents right now we at W3C usually work
and…

Carsten Stöcker: Mhm.

Ivan Herman: this working group exclusively works on GitHub So we will have
to set up repositories or repository for this task force which I have to do
because it has to have some additional things added to it which links it to
the rest of the W3C infrastructure. So first of all we have to agree
whether we want two repositories for the two documents or we want to have
one docntary one repository for the task force for two documents. it both
are possible. it's just up to you to decide that not at this very moment.

Ivan Herman: I mean I just listing the things on which we have to start
with the other that's fine.

Carsten Stöcker: What?

Carsten Stöcker: What do you think?

Ingo Wolf: I think…

Ingo Wolf: since we are the same group of people accessing that repository,
I think one might be enough to manage and have the two documents inside the
same repository. I mean the work

Ivan Herman: That's workable. There are two big camps. The v the rest of
verify the credentials groups group usually uses one repository per
document and therefore we have something like 15 different repository which
is a bit too much for my taste but that's me on the other hand the epub
working group has one repository for something like 12 documents so both of
them are viable whatever you feel comfortable with that's the only criteria
to The other thing is that there might be common CSS files or…

Carsten Stöcker: Maybe even we start with one because what Ingu said it's
kind of simpler and also that people are doing DPP and business wallets at
the same time and maybe then it's even more simpler. Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: whatever other tools that you want to share between the two.
So that makes a lot of sense. So you will have to decide for a name and I
will create a repository. again not at this very moment but at some point
the other thing is that the final documents have to be in HTML as you know
I don't know whether the current starting documentation that you have is in
HTML or…

Ivan Herman: It is okay then that makes it easier and there is a tool which
is called respspec we'll put on where is the chat here there is thing…

Ingo Wolf: It is.

Ivan Herman: which says …

Ingo Wolf: Yeah, we already worked with this and…

Ingo Wolf: I can share you a link from the European business wallet
consortium where you can see a version 0.1 where we use that respect tool
already.

Ivan Herman> respec.org

Ingo Wolf: So we tried to be in the style also from the trading side…

Ingo Wolf> European Business Wallet Vocabulary v0.1
<https://webuild-consortium.github.io/wp4-semantics-group/ebwv/vocabulary.html>

Ivan Herman: Wonderful.

Ingo Wolf: what you use already this is a European business wallet
vocabulary for the other we also started just a moment I have to find the
URL…

Ivan Herman: That's wonderful. And that's for which one of the EBM And the
other

Ingo Wolf: but I think I have it just a moment. Yes. this is our current
work on the battery path ontology. just a moment.

Ingo Wolf: So it's dedicated to a certain type of DPPS in this case for
batteries but we can use it as a starting point and…

Ingo Wolf> Battery Pass v0.2 <https://dpp.vocabulary.spherity.com/dbp/v0.2/>

Ivan Herman: Okay, that's wonder that's wonderful.

Ingo Wolf: then generalize with Caroline or

Carsten Stöcker: Oops.

Ivan Herman: So what I would do is I create a repository with two folders,
one for docu document A and one for document B and then you will populate
it yourself then. But that's wonderful. one thing that I see right away as
a minor problem which we have to be careful about for the time being it's
perfect but when it goes to an official WCC recommendation all editors
unfortunately must be official part of the working group.

Ingo Wolf: Mhm. would be very nice.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, bonus and…

Ivan Herman: So I don't know I see okay you are on the way so that's no
problem. for the okay so that's something that you have to be careful about
so the way I don't know…

Carsten Stöcker: tiger as Bonus size also way and I'm reaching out to the
other business registries in terms of WCC membership. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Ivan Herman: how familiar you are with the way the documents evolve from
this point to a recommendation I mean I can make a kind of a quick run
through the process.

Ingo Wolf: Yes, I mean we did not yet practice it.

Ivan Herman: Okay, then let's do that.

Ingo Wolf: Of course, you can read a few things on W3C, but

Ivan Herman: No, but reading let me then do that and interrupt me if there
is a problem. So which let's say the first document we take at a start we
will have to publish something which is called the first public working
draft. So that's after we have converted into W3C format and after the
editors have been sorted out the list of editors can change while the
develop is working. so if there is only one editor at the beginning who is
officially part of the working group, that's no all of them cannot stay
there. so by doing a first public working draft, it becomes an official W3C
document.

Ivan Herman: Once it's published, that's when actually this IPR mechanism
kicks in and a mail is sent to the whole working group to say are you okay
with that IPR wise there is a formal vote to be done for the working group
to publish it as a FPWD you don't want to know the details now and the
mechanism by which we publish it requires some administ ministration which
is essentially The only job that you will have is that the document has to
abide to a certain set of rules. most of the rules are taken care of by
respect. That's the good thing about it. But it has to be valid HTML etc.

Ivan Herman: And because W3C is very keen on that there is a link checker
and every link which is in the document must be valid link.

Ingo Wolf: Perfect.

Ivan Herman: So we hate 404s. so much that it is not accepted for
publication with 404. what once it is a first public working draft I will
install some additional magic tools. that means that from that point on
every time you make a merge of this for the draft it will be automatically
republished on W3C space. So you will have a stable URL which will always
reflect the latest version of the document.

Ivan Herman: So in a sense the GitHub repositories file is essentially
automatically the latest working draft and that means we can cycle with
that it's easy I don't have to do anything it's just automatically done by
the tool it's a GitHub workflow YAML file which does that okay fast forward
we find that everything is done everything is perfect then we request the
publication of what is called a candidate recommendation that's in about a
year let's say or something like that see now that the message that it
sends to the

Ivan Herman: world by doing that is that technically speaking the
specification is final. but then we have to test it. what it means to test
a vocabulary is always a complicated thing because if let's say an API is
defined somewhere then we require two independent implementations of the
API which the essential goal of the CR is to prove that a standard is
implementable. It's not just a paperwork. That's one of the biggest
difference between let's say ISO and us that we require this additional
existence proof so to say for vocabularies this has always been a
questionable thing.

Ivan Herman: I mean it depends a little bit on the nature of the vocabulary
because in the example that you show Carson essentially there are
operations comparisons that are built into the vocabulary. So there is a
processing done on the vocabulary which goes beyond what simply an ontology
has. If that is the case that has to be tested whether it is properly done.
So we have to have test cases and implementations. If the vocabular is in
inverted comma just an ontology then usually what we say is that there has
to be at least two independent usage of the vocabulary.

Ivan Herman: So publications publishing a consuming this data with that
vocabulary. So is something which is usable for the community out there.

Ivan Herman: This is essentially what we will have to prove. I don't hear
you.

Carsten Stöcker: the same software stack.

Carsten Stöcker: example, if so we have a lot of business registries and…

Ivan Herman: No independent software has to prove it.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Independent software and…

Carsten Stöcker: independent business for example have different business
registries and if the different business registry use it on independent
software stack then it's two different implementations. Right. Okay.

Ivan Herman: Yes. Yes.

Ivan Herman: Yes. Yes. we will have to specify that precisely before we go
to CR,…

Ivan Herman: but what you say sounds perfectly feasible.

Carsten Stöcker: No. Okay.

Carsten Stöcker: Because we have a lot of business registries and then we
always should have a possibility to do it with other implementers and…

Carsten Stöcker: even Marcus Sabadello wanted to do an implementation
because he's also interested in this work. For that reason, we should be
able to deal with this. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: So that's okay.

Ivan Herman: We just have to specify it when we go to CR.

Carsten Stöcker: And even Manu also did introductions to other companies.

Carsten Stöcker: To Zean said they love it but they don't have time. Then
to US Chamber of Commerce. We talked to US Chamber of Commerce next week
and…

Carsten Stöcker: maybe even Netflix. I think there could be more WCC
people. I don't know if they're all members or not, but Mano did the
introductions. So we most likely see some more people kind of interested in
this from our WCC ecosystem.

Ivan Herman: for a specific company I can check it for you whether the
member semens is that's no problem so they can and…

Carsten Stöcker: As soon as this Yes, absolutely. Yeah. Ivan Herman:

Ivan Herman: the member can send as many person as they want to any working
group they want.

Phil Archer: Thank you.

Ivan Herman: It's one or all. So none other so that should be a problem. So
back in Phil I am doing a fast description of the process so that they know
what expecting so if the CR is satisfactory we have test results which we
can prove then we are done and we publish a recommendation so that's what
happens we will have which can be a disagreeable

Ivan Herman: thing but very useful at the same time we have what we call
horizontal reviews which are very important in general we are reviewed by
people who are expert in internationalization and localization
accessibility security privacy and there is a technical architectural group
that also reviews that for this type of work I think localiz ization will
be very internationalization and localization has to be taken care of.
accessibility I don't expect that to be really relevant for security and
privacy.

Ivan Herman: I just didn't read on I mean I presume mainly for privacy
issues there might be issues that I don't know I mean we will cross the
bridge when we get there but this is something that we have to start
requesting the relevant groups before we go to CR and it usually takes a
long time because they are over booked with the various working groups I
mean with the verify credential groups that publishes something like 15
different document and…

Ingo Wolf: No, thank you very much for the comprehensive overview.

Ivan Herman: they probably hate our names already because we are there with
15 different documents to be reviewed but that's the way it is. I think
that's about it right now. Any particular question? Phil we feel we agreed
that this task force will set up one repository. Once the repository name
is provided I will set it up.

Phil Archer: one repo. I thought there'd be two. Okay. I mean,…

Ivan Herman: Two yeah that's up to the task force and…

Phil Archer: it's up to customer, not me. So, I'm Yep.

Ivan Herman: for the time being the preferences to have two I mean it makes
sense in one s situation Phil if the two work share certain tools CSS
whatever then it makes sense to have them in one repository because then
there can be a common place with let's say CSS files and that makes

Ivan Herman: the audio is losing sound.

Phil Archer: So, I suppose my questions and we'll talk about this, again
next time. is I know custom and you've done all this work on those wallet
vocabulary AA I know you've done a lot of work on DPP sorry sorry I'm in a
hotel thing I have no control …

Ivan Herman: Very nice.

Ivan Herman: your foot.

Phil Archer: what I don't know is how mature they are and how much work you
think this group is going to have to do. is it at one end of the spectrum
it's all done at the other end of the spectrum we have no idea what we're
doing. I know that's not true, but whereabouts on that spectrum are we Yeah.

Carsten Stöcker: I think we're on the spectrum.

Ivan Herman: right.

Carsten Stöcker: We have done a lot of work but still there are gaps like
hey for example child relationships do we have semantics or not? Is this a
missing gap? what are the other whatever power of attorney roles that need
to be added? I think we can address the gap but also if a big chunk of work
is being done then it needs to be aligned with other stakeholders. To have
more buy in and I think this is completely pending. Yeah.

Carsten Stöcker: only being done in Europe within our rebuild the mentor
group. Yeah. Yes.

Phil Archer: Yes, that's an issue because we have to obviously go beyond
Europe for that. so I doubt it will make a huge amount of difference…

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Sure.

Phil Archer: but we need to actively try and do that. Okay. …

Carsten Stöcker: Absolutely. We reached out to man who brought us in touch
with US Chamber of Commerce and others. I think we should be able to find
more people. Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Archer: and contact with UN DP will help as well. I don't know whether
any of Steve Capel's team will be able to spend time on this.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: Do that.

Phil Archer: I hope somebody will. I'm trying to get one of the guys into
the group. Wie Raymond joins today. so we got more capacity there. so I'm
confident we can do this. But yes, those horizontal reviews that Ivan
talked about are important. and…

Carsten Stöcker: We're good.

Phil Archer: I know I'm not suggesting we do it now, but it's always sooner
than you think. It's always a time to start asking those groups to have a
look. And then Ingo, I think you've been volunteered to be an editor. so
we'll need to help you get up to speed with using GitHub and respspec and
the arcane ways of W3C…

Ingo Wolf: I pasted there two example J

Phil Archer: which actually become really easy and…

Ivan Herman: Phil, if you have Phil,…

Phil Archer: then when you use it, you get really cross.

Ivan Herman: if you have access to your chat of this room,…

Phil Archer: Yes. All right.

Ivan Herman: there are two because they already use respect and it looks
very much like our stuff.

Phil Archer: Excellent.

Ivan Herman: So the learning curve is much less problematic than it could
be.

Phil Archer: Good. yes. so one place where we might be able to do some
dissemination work, is I forget the threeletter acronym for the thing in
Geneva on the 1st of September. DGC, the wallet thing,…

Ivan Herman: something like that.

Ivan Herman: I don't know.

Phil Archer: something like The wallet thing in Geneva. Are you going to
that?

Carsten Stöcker: Global Digital Collaboration Conference or… Phil Archer:

Phil Archer: That's the one.

Carsten Stöcker: something like this. Phil Archer:

Phil Archer: Yeah. GDC. Yeah. Are you going to that?

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, there at least I registered. Yeah, I'm planning to
do so. No, that's

Phil Archer: I just got approval go. to go today. so not now, but we should
think about offering a session on this, I think, because they want ideas
for sessions, don't they? ideas for stuff. So, we should register some
ideas for that, I think. Okay, great.

Ivan Herman: Yeah, I think we have covered what should be covered.

Phil Archer: Good. Yes.

Ivan Herman: we should be proactive to get all the people in the task force
on this course…

Phil Archer: Yes, we will.

Ivan Herman: because do you have contact in Asia?

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, we need Yes,…

Carsten Stöcker: of we have contact in Asia. We need to check if some of
these people are part of W3C. This could be possible. I need to check it
now.

Ivan Herman: Because this is typically the kind of thing that should Not
only it should not be in Europe only, but it should

Carsten Stöcker: So we have doing a lot of supply chain projects with
regards to business wallets, credentials in so-called data spaces. Yeah.
And there we have other companies in South Korea, China, Wu Huay, but
people right now it's super geopolitical with them to talk with them at all.

Carsten Stöcker: Unfortunately because would have been a good fit…

Carsten Stöcker: but geopolitically I think it's difficult. Then we have
Japan, Puyitsu, DNP and others. I think I will probably need to check who's
WCC member and then we can do outreach. Yeah. Yeah.

Ivan Herman: That again checking is not a problem.

Ivan Herman: We have our teams in China in Japan and we also have contacts
in Korea. So if you need practical reach outreach etc they can be helpful
for that.

Carsten Stöcker: So we have Fitsuachi. They're all working in Europe on
these topics. It's sometimes difficult to get. Yeah.

Carsten Stöcker: There is a possibility that I send some companies we work
for example for Ysu so that we find the contact person that are dealing
with W3C or how should we do it because the are big corporates finding the
right people sometime we know the European people…

Ivan Herman: Kuju Limited is member I don't know let me

Carsten Stöcker: but then yeah yes yes and…

Phil Archer: We can always find the AC rep for any member.

Phil Archer: That's so the key person for Asia in all this is Senong.

Carsten Stöcker: he touched as well.

Phil Archer: Senong though do you know Senong?

Carsten Stöcker: Mm-

Phil Archer: Syong used until very recently worked for the Singapore
government. IMDA is particular agency and he's been on this banging this
drum for a long time. his thing is crossber trade and so I was delighted
that he joined the group so he's in as an invited expert he's retired but
he's one of those central figures in the network for the whole of Southeast
Asia at least

Ivan Herman: Heat tree limited is also member.

Carsten Stöcker: If you do an introduction…

Carsten Stöcker: then I can discuss with who are the best companies that
might be interested. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of Yeah.

Phil Archer: …

Phil Archer: we have good connections around the world in different ways.

Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, we can do more outreach. We will start this. Yeah.
Yes.

Phil Archer: Okay, thank Is this now the regular slot? I think. Yes. Is
this I will be home again next week. So, I'll be here.

Carsten Stöcker: Oops.

Phil Archer: That won't be a problem. And we can do some Thank you.

Ivan Herman: I add it to my calendar and…

Ivan Herman: I changed my weekly schedule to be able to be here, but it's
now changed. Almost 90% of the thing is changed.

Phil Archer: Great. No,…

Ivan Herman: Phil, I have no idea how this note takingaking stuff works. I
see here that there is a Firefice AI note taker, Miguel, which I presume is
not a person,…

Phil Archer: It's a machine.

Ivan Herman: but whether the minutes will be automatically sent to me and…

Ivan Herman: then I put them out to GitHub or not, I don't know.

Ivan Herman: There is a magic going on with money that I am not familiar
with.

Phil Archer: I agree.

Phil Archer: And it'll be interesting to see what happens. Yes, this call
it's okay. But yes, so did anyone here actively invite fireflies?

Carsten Stöcker: This maybe manu invited them.

Phil Archer: Right. Right.

Ivan Herman: When I came in, it was here.

Phil Archer: So it's probably maybe. Yeah,…

Ivan Herman: Maybe invited is so pro because he is the one who made the
reservation on the Google meet. So maybe at that point that he made some
connection that we don't know. we shall see.

Phil Archer: we'll find There's no working group call this week. because at
the AC meeting in China and other bits and bobs are so I will see you cast
at least on Wednesday about this time.

Ivan Herman: Okay, bye-bye everyone.

Carsten Stöcker: Wednesday. Yes.

Phil Archer: Okay.

Carsten Stöcker: Okay.

Eva Blomqvist: Thank you. Bye.

Phil Archer: Thank you.

Ingo Wolf: Thank you.

Carsten Stöcker: Bye-bye. Thank you.

Ingo Wolf: A nice question.

Carsten Stöcker: Bye-bye. Yes.

Phil Archer: Thanks. you soon. Bye-bye.

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Carsten Stöcker: Yeah, good decision.

Carsten Stöcker: Morning. Mhm. Meeting ended after 02:10:29 👋 This
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