Re: [Minutes] VC WG 2022-11-23

Cool, then I trust the process to be proper and just blaim my ignorance.
Thanks for taking time and teaching me this
ᐧ

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 10:24 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> I am at an airport with only my ipad, it is more complicated to locate
> links, but there are pages on our web site on working modes, which also
> include these informations (or pointers thereof)
>
> Ivan
>
> ——
> Ivan Herman
> +33 652 46 00 43
>
> (Written on my iPad. Excuses for brevity and misspellings...)
>
> On 25 Nov 2022, at 10:15, Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
> wrote:
>
> 
> Cool thanks, I did not see it. Then I should not need another link.
> Is all this information recorded anywhere? By all this I mean, /me,
> discrepancies with the log versus chatlog?
> So future newbies like me dont go the same thought process as me :D
> ᐧ
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 9:57 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi Snorre
>>
>> ——
>> Ivan Herman
>> +33 652 46 00 43
>>
>> (Written on my iPad. Excuses for brevity and misspellings...)
>>
>> On 25 Nov 2022, at 09:47, Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <
>> snorre@diwala.io> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> @Kristina Yasuda <Kristina.Yasuda@microsoft.com> cool cool, what does
>> /me mean? Is it just a comment not be recorded?
>>
>>
>> It is exactly that.
>>
>>
>>
>> Since I live in transcript world because of difficult hours, can we
>> atleast add the chat transcript link to the email going out each week :D
>> So I can try to deduce these things?
>>
>>
>> You mean the url of the irc log? Ican do that. However, if you go the
>> minues, e.g.,
>>
>> W3C VC WG Meeting 2022-11-23 00:00:00 +0000
>> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>> w3.org <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>>
> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>>
>>
>> The pointer to the irc log is in the header.
>>
>> (except for the latest minutes, there was a small bug in the irc)
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 4:48 AM Kristina Yasuda <
>> Kristina.Yasuda@microsoft.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Snorre,
>>> People sometimes put comments in IRC using ‘/me’ so that they won’t be
>>> recorded in the minutes, but others sometimes react to those statements
>>> without using ‘/me’ and since those reactions get recorded in the minutes
>>> without the original comment, they might feel out of context.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Kristina
>>>
>>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 24, 2022 2:49:32 AM
>>> *To:* Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
>>> *Cc:* W3C VC Working Group <public-vc-wg@w3.org>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Minutes] VC WG 2022-11-23
>>>
>>> Thanks for the context and it helps a lot.
>>>
>>> I have some comments on your last summary of what has been tried out.
>>>
>>> My assumption is that everything is exportable via machine interfaces.
>>> Meaning data can be stored as it is today with some pipeline parts.
>>> Automatic systems have become better over the years, and
>>> definitively after the remote work boom with corona wiping over the world.
>>>
>>> Are there any trace of the work that has happened so one does not start
>>> at scratch if it is of interest to revisit this?
>>> ᐧ
>>> ᐧ
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 11:40 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Snorre,
>>>
>>> I was not at the call yesterday, so I do not want to comment on the
>>> specific issues; I let the participants help you out.
>>>
>>> For the general question, however: scribing is done by a human. Namely,
>>> people on the call take turns to be "scribes": they use IRC to write down
>>> what they hear people are saying, following some minor rules on how to do
>>> that (precede what they write with the IRC nickname of the person talking,
>>> that sort of things). The chair of the meeting manages the queue, so that
>>> everyone can take his/her turn.
>>>
>>> This, sort of, linear flow is intertwined with all participants being
>>> able to type on IRC, adding their own comments, +1 or -1, etc. These are
>>> comments out of the natural flow of the minutes (and not typed by the
>>> scribe).
>>>
>>> At the end of the meeting the IRC log is dumped (via a bot running at
>>> W3C) onto our server and is available by everyone. Furthermore a script
>>> takes this raw log and turns it into something more readable. There are
>>> several such scripts that evolved over the years; the historical one
>>> generates an HTML file; since we have moved to github to manage the WG's
>>> web site, I use a different script that I have developed and maintained
>>> over the years, which converts these logs to markdown, which is then
>>> displayed by the CMS system (jekyll) that generates what you see. Actually,
>>> the raw IRC logs are usually "cleaned up" before feeding it to the script,
>>> taking care of spelling mistakes, possibly adding some manual formatting to
>>> the lot, etc.
>>>
>>> Bottom line: it is a human. And it is a very difficult job to do those
>>> irc minutes well, some are better at it than others, but it is never
>>> perfect.
>>>
>>> W3C has experimented with some automatic minuting, but the results were
>>> never acceptable. Without knowing the technical context, those tools have
>>> produced crazy, sometimes hilarious results… Other groups have chosen
>>> shared tools like google docs or markdown pads, but the issue is, usually,
>>> that it is unclear where to store and archive those minutes for long term
>>> (these minutes are supposed to be readable in many years to come, when we
>>> may be out of W3C already…).
>>>
>>> I hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Ivan
>>>
>>> On 24 Nov 2022, at 11:18, Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <
>>> snorre@diwala.io> wrote:
>>>
>>> I want to dig into how the scribing works.
>>> Since these meetings are usually at a very difficult time for me I stick
>>> with reading the transcripts to be up to date.
>>> I have a responsibility to my role as invited expert.
>>>
>>> But there are situations in the transcript where there is information
>>> lost.
>>> For this particular example
>>>
>>> There are two places I see people give +1 to Orie without Ories context
>>> being documented. There is a comment that gives a small summary with
>>> their +1, but I dont know if that is enough.
>>> They also usually end very abruptly, feeling like there is something
>>> missed.
>>>
>>> Is this scribing done by a human only or assisted by a robot?
>>> Are there any current issues of the scribing process we want to improve
>>> or implement that are on hold because of time?
>>> ᐧ
>>>
>>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:31 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Minutes are here:
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg
>>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2Fvc%2FWG%2FMeetings%2FMinutes%2F2022-11-23-vcwg&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501575406%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0UvaEG4kjZ0jmTAxGBkKmAfQhX88OgBALygThH3SHOo%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> ivan
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501575406%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JS6IrQHDM6i2kYX4kq5gU2tgjkZcZ3JVfdTxcODhSK8%3D&reserved=0>
>>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin *
>>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>>> +47 411 611 94
>>> www.diwala.io
>>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diwala.io%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501575406%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=o4u21pQeHD96H%2FS1v1v4EeZCOlCCB0V9qv7QcjenE8w%3D&reserved=0>
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>>>
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501731652%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Z1AHN900V%2BPoUQDM177cR8q1TNjLMcwWYN6yqYF4VhU%3D&reserved=0>
>>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin *
>>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>>> +47 411 611 94
>>> www.diwala.io
>>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diwala.io%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501731652%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gn1FePpXhgYz9YDsBPEjtaEKhtElpCml78SoQN6PPZQ%3D&reserved=0>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>> +47 411 611 94
>> www.diwala.io
>> <http://www.diwala.io/>
>> *Stay on top of Diwala news on social media! **Facebook
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>> <https://twitter.com/Diwala>*
>>
>>
>
> --
>
> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
> +47 411 611 94
> www.diwala.io
> <http://www.diwala.io/>
> *Stay on top of Diwala news on social media! **Facebook
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> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/diwala>** / **Instagram
> <https://www.instagram.com/diwala_/>** / **Twitter
> <https://twitter.com/Diwala>*
>
>

-- 

*Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611 94
www.diwala.io
<http://www.diwala.io/>
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