Re: [Minutes] VC WG 2022-11-23

Cool thanks, I did not see it. Then I should not need another link.
Is all this information recorded anywhere? By all this I mean, /me,
discrepancies with the log versus chatlog?
So future newbies like me dont go the same thought process as me :D
ᐧ

On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 9:57 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi Snorre
>
> ——
> Ivan Herman
> +33 652 46 00 43
>
> (Written on my iPad. Excuses for brevity and misspellings...)
>
> On 25 Nov 2022, at 09:47, Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
> wrote:
>
> 
> @Kristina Yasuda <Kristina.Yasuda@microsoft.com> cool cool, what does /me
> mean? Is it just a comment not be recorded?
>
>
> It is exactly that.
>
>
>
> Since I live in transcript world because of difficult hours, can we
> atleast add the chat transcript link to the email going out each week :D
> So I can try to deduce these things?
>
>
> You mean the url of the irc log? Ican do that. However, if you go the
> minues, e.g.,
>
> W3C VC WG Meeting 2022-11-23 00:00:00 +0000
> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
> w3.org <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
> [image: favicon.ico]
> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
> <https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg>
>
>
> The pointer to the irc log is in the header.
>
> (except for the latest minutes, there was a small bug in the irc)
>
> Ivan
>
>
> ᐧ
>
> On Fri, Nov 25, 2022 at 4:48 AM Kristina Yasuda <
> Kristina.Yasuda@microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Snorre,
>> People sometimes put comments in IRC using ‘/me’ so that they won’t be
>> recorded in the minutes, but others sometimes react to those statements
>> without using ‘/me’ and since those reactions get recorded in the minutes
>> without the original comment, they might feel out of context.
>> Cheers,
>> Kristina
>>
>> Get Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <snorre@diwala.io>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 24, 2022 2:49:32 AM
>> *To:* Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>
>> *Cc:* W3C VC Working Group <public-vc-wg@w3.org>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Minutes] VC WG 2022-11-23
>>
>> Thanks for the context and it helps a lot.
>>
>> I have some comments on your last summary of what has been tried out.
>>
>> My assumption is that everything is exportable via machine interfaces.
>> Meaning data can be stored as it is today with some pipeline parts.
>> Automatic systems have become better over the years, and
>> definitively after the remote work boom with corona wiping over the world.
>>
>> Are there any trace of the work that has happened so one does not start
>> at scratch if it is of interest to revisit this?
>> ᐧ
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 11:40 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>
>> Snorre,
>>
>> I was not at the call yesterday, so I do not want to comment on the
>> specific issues; I let the participants help you out.
>>
>> For the general question, however: scribing is done by a human. Namely,
>> people on the call take turns to be "scribes": they use IRC to write down
>> what they hear people are saying, following some minor rules on how to do
>> that (precede what they write with the IRC nickname of the person talking,
>> that sort of things). The chair of the meeting manages the queue, so that
>> everyone can take his/her turn.
>>
>> This, sort of, linear flow is intertwined with all participants being
>> able to type on IRC, adding their own comments, +1 or -1, etc. These are
>> comments out of the natural flow of the minutes (and not typed by the
>> scribe).
>>
>> At the end of the meeting the IRC log is dumped (via a bot running at
>> W3C) onto our server and is available by everyone. Furthermore a script
>> takes this raw log and turns it into something more readable. There are
>> several such scripts that evolved over the years; the historical one
>> generates an HTML file; since we have moved to github to manage the WG's
>> web site, I use a different script that I have developed and maintained
>> over the years, which converts these logs to markdown, which is then
>> displayed by the CMS system (jekyll) that generates what you see. Actually,
>> the raw IRC logs are usually "cleaned up" before feeding it to the script,
>> taking care of spelling mistakes, possibly adding some manual formatting to
>> the lot, etc.
>>
>> Bottom line: it is a human. And it is a very difficult job to do those
>> irc minutes well, some are better at it than others, but it is never
>> perfect.
>>
>> W3C has experimented with some automatic minuting, but the results were
>> never acceptable. Without knowing the technical context, those tools have
>> produced crazy, sometimes hilarious results… Other groups have chosen
>> shared tools like google docs or markdown pads, but the issue is, usually,
>> that it is unclear where to store and archive those minutes for long term
>> (these minutes are supposed to be readable in many years to come, when we
>> may be out of W3C already…).
>>
>> I hope this helps,
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> On 24 Nov 2022, at 11:18, Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin <
>> snorre@diwala.io> wrote:
>>
>> I want to dig into how the scribing works.
>> Since these meetings are usually at a very difficult time for me I stick
>> with reading the transcripts to be up to date.
>> I have a responsibility to my role as invited expert.
>>
>> But there are situations in the transcript where there is information
>> lost.
>> For this particular example
>>
>> There are two places I see people give +1 to Orie without Ories context
>> being documented. There is a comment that gives a small summary with
>> their +1, but I dont know if that is enough.
>> They also usually end very abruptly, feeling like there is something
>> missed.
>>
>> Is this scribing done by a human only or assisted by a robot?
>> Are there any current issues of the scribing process we want to improve
>> or implement that are on hold because of time?
>> ᐧ
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 6:31 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>>
>> Minutes are here:
>>
>> https://www.w3.org/2017/vc/WG/Meetings/Minutes/2022-11-23-vcwg
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2017%2Fvc%2FWG%2FMeetings%2FMinutes%2F2022-11-23-vcwg&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501575406%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0UvaEG4kjZ0jmTAxGBkKmAfQhX88OgBALygThH3SHOo%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> ivan
>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501575406%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=JS6IrQHDM6i2kYX4kq5gU2tgjkZcZ3JVfdTxcODhSK8%3D&reserved=0>
>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin *
>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>> +47 411 611 94
>> www.diwala.io
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>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FPeople%2FIvan%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501731652%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Z1AHN900V%2BPoUQDM177cR8q1TNjLMcwWYN6yqYF4VhU%3D&reserved=0>
>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin *
>> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
>> +47 411 611 94
>> www.diwala.io
>> <https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.diwala.io%2F&data=05%7C01%7Ckristina.yasuda%40microsoft.com%7Cd5385751e5074bcc17c008dace09bded%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C638048838501731652%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gn1FePpXhgYz9YDsBPEjtaEKhtElpCml78SoQN6PPZQ%3D&reserved=0>
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>
>
> --
>
> *Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
> Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
> +47 411 611 94
> www.diwala.io
> <http://www.diwala.io/>
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>

-- 

*Snorre Lothar von Gohren Edwin*
Co-Founder & CTO, Diwala
+47 411 611 94
www.diwala.io
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