- From: James A. Donald <jamesd@echeque.com>
- Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 18:25:14 +1000
- To: public-usable-authentication@w3.org
-- Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote: > The users correctly work out that certain areas are > not trustworthy. But they never get told what they can > trust. And because they were never told that they can > trust the chrome lots of people have assumed that its > OK to let content providers walk all over it. So we > have abhorences like frameless popup windows. These days popups are is usually disabled by default. Javascript should never have been allowed to launch popups programattically. Instead, it should be allowed to cause a user interface widget to be displayed which can enable the user to launch a popup. > But would you check it if you received a message > claiming that your paypal payment for the wire wheels > you sold last night had been blocked? This happened to > the guy who I paid $560 to last week. Fortunately he > is sending me the wheels. But a key problem in the > communication here was the fact that I just don't have > any way of telling him 'this is what a completely > trustworthy message looks like'. > > I also agree that if we really want to get a handle > here on the specific problem of credential theft then > we need to have a trustworthy path for entering the > credentials. Probably something like CardSpace. But > phishing is only one of the frauds that impersonation > makes possible and we have to make sure we solve both > problems. We need both belt and braces. We know the cryptographic protocols needed to make things work, and these protocols have been implemented, but are not connected to the user interface, not connected to the user, in ways that are useful. When we discuss protocols, we talk of Alice and Bob as if Alice was personally encrypting stuff. In future, we need to discuss the communication between Alice, Alice's agent, Bob's agent, and Bob. To illustrate the problem, let us suppose that tomorrow everyone in the world gets a verisign certificate attesting to their unique identity, credit rating, and so forth, and this certificate is installed on their computer - but oops, people move between computers. OK, assume everyone in the world gets a portable, perhaps a cell phone, that they never lose. Shortly thereafter banks and merchants start relying on this client side certificate. Very shortly thereafter, you find lots of ads for sites offering various free goodies - porn, useful information, coupons, whatever. And when your browser goes to one of those sites, an invisible frame window then proceeds to make a transaction with your bank. Of course this problem with client certificates results from the the silent and automatic login that client certificates do, and that most single signon systems do. Silent and automatic login is a violation of Kim Cameron's laws of identity. So if our system complies to Kim Cameron's rules, all will be well, right? Well, actually no. It is far from clear than existing browsers can comply with the rules of identity, because of poor sandboxing. Even plain html without javascript has capabilities it definitely should not have, and we cannot deprecate those capabilities, for no one is even thinking about providing alternative methods for accomplishing the things that these dangerously powerful capabilities accomplish. We have extremely serious architectural problems, for example frames, get, post, img and XMLHTTPRequest, all of which violate sandboxing, and no one seems to be even trying to visualize a path out of these problems, except for the occasional deranged sounding voice in the wilderness, such as myself. --digsig James A. Donald 6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG B5LTdW+7ciCrIPBmC5Vfg6gBpwEhW+7RYoo0pkn2 4lqynB/LG9dCrLAsiY/7M2Nm7PPasn1fwB/CnPsja
Received on Tuesday, 12 September 2006 08:25:12 UTC