- From: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>
- Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2014 10:01:09 -0500
- To: public-uaag2-comments@w3.org
Forwarded to the public list with permission from Dominic. Some info has been deleted at his request. He is also interested in attending a few UAWG meetings to discuss his comments. jeanne -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Chrome review of UAAG LC? Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2014 01:16:32 -0800 From: Dominic Mazzoni <dmazzoni@chromium.org> To: Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org>, David Tseng <dtseng@google.com>, Alice Boxhall <aboxhall@google.com>, Peter Lundblad <plundblad@google.com>, Ian Ellison-Taylor <ianet@google.com> Hi Jeanne, Thanks for the opportunity to give feedback. I'm cc'ing a few of my colleagues who might also be really interested in reviewing this if they have time. David, Alice, and Peter are other engineers who work on Chrome accessibility, and Ian and Greg are Chrome Directors. The comments below are my own personal take, we haven't had a chance to craft a unified response. I think the idea behind almost all of these recommendations is very good. I'd love for us to implement many of them in Chrome, and it makes sense for users to have access to most of these features. However, I have a number of concerns about the details of these recommendations. Here's my feedback. * Chrome has a general philosophy that users should not be presented with too many settings or switches to control. Settings that are only enabled by a small minority of users increase the perceived complexity for everyone else and also increase the number of possible configurations for the developer to support and test. We prefer many such features to be available via extensions or add-ons instead. This document contains a large number of recommendations for additional configurations a user can specify, presumably via a specific option or setting built-into the browser. What do you think about having extensions available for each of these features, rather than building them into the browser? Would Chrome be considered compliant with this spec if we implemented all of these guidelines as extensions and published an easy-to-use catalog of these for users to browse and install the ones they want? The "Implementing" spec even references Firefox add-ons, like Text Equivalent Expand Abbreviations. Do the spec authors feel that such features should be built into the browser, or merely that such an option must be available to users? * Settings that allow the user too much control over the layout and formatting invariably cause some web pages to be unusable. As an example, the minimum font size setting can be great for accessibility. However, it can make many websites with more complicated layouts unusable because the relatives sizes of text vs other elements on the page can now be off by a substantial margin. In contrast, most browsers now support a "zoom" feature that magnifies all elements on the page proportionally. To a web author, this is equivalent to the user modifying the width of the window, a case that already needs to be handled gracefully. I don't feel that we should be telling users that they can't use a website because the web author is making the text too small, or using a font that's inaccessible to them. However, it's also counterproductive to give the user so much control that too many sites become impossible to use, and web developers will have no incentive or ability to fix their sites since there are so many permutations they need to support. For example, I worry that the ability to change line spacing, character spacing, or justification might create more compatibility problems than they solve accessibility problems. I don't have any objection to allowing the user to specify font subsitutions, in comparison. * Some of the recommendations seem overly technical and narrow: for example, the use-case for Show Element Hierarchy is that a user might want to write a custom stylesheet and needs to determine the path to a particular element within a page to write a style rule for it. However, there are already more innovative solutions to this problem available. A popular Chrome extension, StyleBot, lets the user simply click on any element on the page and modify the custom stylesheet with a friendly dialog interface. They can explore the classes that this element belongs to and apply the same style change to all elements in that class. My concern is just that these guidelines should not specify one narrow solution to a problem that precludes a more clever implementation. * Many of the guidelines are specific to a desktop computer, and written in a way that's too narrow to apply to a web browser running on a phone, tablet, or other device that may not have a keyboard. The guidelines should be written in a way that explain the user need and don't assume that a keyboard is available. * Many of the guidelines suggest features that are already available in existing assistive technology - for example opening an elements list, navigation by headings, or using voice control to jump to an element. Do the guidelines really mean to suggest that the browser should reimplement these as browser features rather than making them features of the AT? It's not clear to me that browsers should be providing these features directly - rather, they should expose rich information to AT via accessibility APIs, and allow AT to innovate ways to present this information to diverse groups of users. * Guideline 2.6 suggests that "users can discover what event handlers (e.g. onmouseover) are available at each element". This is impossible to implement - it's quite commonplace for a web author to install a global event listener, or an event listener on a container element, and decide what to do depending on the target element of each event that bubbles up. - Dominic On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM, Jeanne Spellman <jeanne@w3.org> wrote: > Hi Dominic, > > I wanted to let you know that the working group extended the comment > period for UAAG Last Call Working Draft after several people asked for more > time. I REALLY want input from Google. I would want to hear from both > mobile and desktop browser teams, if possible. > > > UAAG 2.0 <- http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/ > Implementing UAAG 2.0 <- http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/ > > Comments close on 31 January. Please send comments to > public-uaag2-comments@w3.org > > I hope you can make the time to take a look at it. Let me know if you > have any questions. > > Regards, > > jeanne > > > On 12/11/2013 12:49 PM, Jeanne Spellman wrote: > >> Hi Dominic, >> >> I'm sorry this is late, I thought I had sent it last week, but didn't >> find it in my Sent mailbox. I wanted to send a personal invite in case >> you don't receive the routine WAI announcements of publications. Please >> let me know if you need more time for review, since I know you are >> getting this email later than I wanted. >> >> User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (UAWG) recently >> published the Last Call Working Draft of the User Agent Accessibility >> Guidelines (UAAG) 2.0. The UAWG would appreciate feedback from Chrome, >> especially from the Chrome mobile teams. >> >> You may also want to consider reviewing "Implementing UAAG 2.0", which >> provides more explanatory material on the the intent of each success >> criterion, examples of ways that the success criterion could be >> implemented, and additional resources and cross-references. >> >> UAAG 2.0 <- http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG20/ >> Implementing UAAG 2.0 <- http://www.w3.org/TR/IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20/ >> >> Comments on this working draft are due on or before 16 December 2013. >> Please let me know if you need additional time. Comments on the draft >> should be sent to public-uaag2-comments@w3.org >> >> If the mobile development teams are interested, we published a list of >> the mobile examples from UAAG last June. They are published at: >> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20130606/mobile.html >> >> Thank you for your interest and time. >> >> Regards, >> >> jeanne >> >> Jeanne Spellman >> Staff Contact, UAWG >> >> >> > -- > _______________________________ > Jeanne Spellman > W3C Web Accessibility Initiative > jeanne@w3.org >
Received on Tuesday, 14 January 2014 15:01:15 UTC