- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2025 16:17:32 +0000
- To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <85D4AD9C-B292-4770-A8EC-1EFE1855E31A@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today’s TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-minutes.html
In plain text:
[1]W3C
[1] https://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
09 October 2025
[2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log.
[2] https://www.w3.org/2025/09/25-tt-minutes.html
[3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/317
[4] https://www.w3.org/2025/10/09-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Andreas, Astushi, Atsushi, Chris_Needham, Cyril, Harold,
Nigel, Pierre
Regrets
Gary
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel, cpn
Contents
1. [5]This meeting
2. [6]IMSC 1.3
1. [7]Improve the ja character set per ARIB feedback
w3c/imsc#614
2. [8]APA WG comment: semantic layers w3c/imsc#524
3. [9]DAPT
1. [10]Include registry data from external files
w3c/dapt#326
2. [11]Tests don't always set daptm:represents
w3c/dapt-tests#41
4. [12]TPAC 2025 Planning
5. [13]Meeting close
Meeting minutes
This meeting
Nigel: (Recaps the agenda) Anything else?
IMSC 1.3
Nigel: I think we need to cover the ja character set changes
and issue 524
Improve the ja character set per ARIB feedback [14]w3c/imsc#614
[14] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/614
github: [15]w3c/imsc#614
[15] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/614
Pierre: [shares screen]
… Liaison from ARIB raises the question at hand.
… ARIB kindly suggested character set changes for ja, which is
great.
… There's a note about Ideographic Variation Selector.
… However that is not a defined term.
… Atsushi and I have been discussing how to interpret it.
… We need to figure out what that means, so we don't write
something different from
… what they intend.
… From Atsushi's last comment I think "ideographic variation
sequence"?
Atsushi: CJK compatibility ideographs are there for
compatibility.
… There can be mismapping between character set and what
Unicode says.
… For backward compatibility between local character set and
unicode some characters
… have both mappings within [scribe missed].
… I believe that is not related to variation sequence or
anything else.
… If someone wants to say about the variation selector usually
we say
… "ideographic variation selector" or "ideographic variation
sequence"
… so they should mean the same as each other. They are terms
used interchangeably.
… I believe what the point means is that the ideographic
variation sequences shall be used.
Pierre: That's not part of main Unicode, it's part of UCS-37.
Does ARIB reference UCS-37?
Atsushi: Variation selector itself is in ISO10646
Pierre: That's a much broader thing though, includes emoji
selectors which I think we don't want.
Atsushi: shows [Ideographic variation sequence] in Unicode
17.0.0
Pierre: You have to know how to represent it.
Atsushi: Representation is described in a separate database,
not in ISO10646.
Pierre: Before saying you must or should support this I want to
know absolutely certainly that
… is what ARIB has in mind. Can we get a sample?
… I don't want to suggest a mandatory thing that's wrong or
won't be used.
Atsushi: I wonder if I can ask a "side" way from colleagues in
NHK.
Pierre: Please ask informally! I'm interested as an Editor in
knowing which part of Unicode
… this "SHALL" exactly means.
… Just to clarify the terminology that doesn't exactly match
the spec.
Atsushi: Is it okay to reply to the liaison email by myself?
Nigel: Yes I think that would be good. I'd suggest if you can
write informally in response
… that we noticed this small difference in language and want to
make sure that we understand
… correctly and ask for guidance or even sample data then that
would help clear this up for us.
… I don't want to go around a whole formal liaison/response
loop which will take a long time.
Pierre: [drafts the essential request in the GitHub issue]
SUMMARY: @himorin to ask informally for clarification as per
the above discussion.
APA WG comment: semantic layers [16]w3c/imsc#524
[16] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/524
github: [17]w3c/imsc#524
[17] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/524
Nigel: We discussed this back in February and wanted more from
APA
Atsushi: I believe APA has closed on the IMSC 1.3 review
… Wasn't there an accessibility review?
Nigel: I don't think I've seen one, or they've closed it but
there's an ongoing discussion.
[18]a11y tracking issue for IMSC
[18] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-tracking/issues/252
Atsushi: We need traction from APA on these issues, I'm not
sure if there is discussion or not.
… Maybe I need to make it clear to APA that we're requesting
transition to CRS.
Nigel: Would you like to check this offline and get back to us?
Atsushi: Sorry, let me think about it a bit more.
… We could ask for the first CRS but I don't believe we can
close everything as review completed.
Nigel: That's what we need to do, get to a point where we can
publish CRS.
Pierre: What's the hold up?
<atsushi> [19]w3c/a11y-request#116 (comment)
[19] https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/116#issuecomment-3298869859
Atsushi: We need to request a review for CRS but we asked for
an early WD review.
<atsushi> > As we see a FPWD Status, we have no objection, but
would like to return to the question of what might be said
regarding super/subscript before this profile is finalized.
Pierre: We have a review.
Pierre: They closed their horizontal review 3 weeks ago and
their only comment is editorial.
Atsushi: There is a different criteria for each stage. Usually
we discuss comments on specifications
… in early phases but [scribe missed]
Nigel: I'm really confused about this, I thought it was clear
what we wanted.
Pierre: I think we need to determine today if we need further
review.
… My understanding is we asked for HR and we got HR. Why do we
need to do more?
… Atsushi, this is super urgent, do we need to do more in the
Process or are we good to go?
Atsushi: Let me comment on the a11y review request even though
it is closed, to state that
… this request was not an early draft review but a transition
to CRS review.
Pierre: Would you mind doing this today so we can get clarity
on this?
Atushi: I'm writing it now.
SUMMARY: Discussion concerned process not this issue
specifically.
DAPT
Include registry data from external files [20]w3c/dapt#326
[20] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/issues/326
github: [21]w3c/dapt#326
[21] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/326
Nigel: I was implementing validation code and noticed that the
registry data was only in HTML
… in the spec, not useful for using programmatically elsewhere.
… [shows the pull request data]
… Any issues with this?
… Different format for example?
Cyril: Thank you for this, it's good to isolate the data from
the spec HTML
… Regarding the format, GitHub renders CSV as a table, and
makes it easy to edit.
Nigel: Interesting, I haven't thought about CSV.
Cyril: It's good as it is, but it would be easier to prepare
pull requests if you can
… see the proposed changes formatted nicely in GitHub. It's
minor.
… It's already great to separate the registry from the main
spec.
Nigel: In the spirit of agility and iteration we could merge
this now and change it in the future
… if we need to.
Cyril: I like that idea.
Nigel: Thank you, any other points?
Atsushi: I somehow wonder about these functions and whether a
single JSON file will be dynamically loaded two times.
… Also if we want to include the registry table we may want to
include the caption within the JSON
… data. For content using table might it be better to be
generic from the JSON file?
… I'm actually not totally sure about this JSON file being
used, but having some caption or title
… could have a benefit for the users of the JSON file by
itself.
Nigel: That is interesting. At the moment the caption text
includes links to other places in the
… specification, and they would not make sense in isolation.
… I'm not worried about loading the data twice. Even if the
browser doesn't cache it, the files
… are small, and when we publish to TR the scripts are run in
advance to produce the final
… HTML so it's not an issue on /TR.
SUMMARY: Review to continue, early merge okay, further comments
or suggestions welcome
Tests don't always set daptm:represents [22]w3c/dapt-tests#41
[22] https://github.com/w3c/dapt-tests/issues/41
github: [23]w3c/dapt-tests#41
[23] https://github.com/w3c/dapt-tests/issues/41
Nigel: I found a load of valid tests that are not valid because
of constraints around daptm:represents
… and it's also an issue with invalid files where you might get
them showing as invalid for the wrong reason.
… So firstly I wanted to warn everyone, in case you're using
these tests,
… and secondly, I'll propose a fix.
SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to propose a fix for the affected tests
TPAC 2025 Planning
Nigel: From last meeting Gary had some actions to do offline, I
don't think I've seen that yet.
… We really need to know if people have timing constraints,
especially if not attending in person,
… for when particular topics get discussed.
… If you are attending, please add yourself to the wiki page.
… We'll have to move to offline discussion of planning because
the next call on 23 October
… has no Chair available at the moment. If anyone wants to
Chair please let us know.
… Otherwise we'll cancel.
… I also propose that we don't hold a meeting the week after
TPAC, to allow people to
… recover and get on with the other things they need to do.
Good idea?
Cyril: Yes, agree.
Meeting close
Nigel: Thanks everyone. Looks like our next meeting might be at
TPAC, to be confirmed.
… [adjourns meeting]
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Received on Thursday, 9 October 2025 16:17:44 UTC