- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2024 17:02:09 +0000
- To: "public-tt@w3.org" <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D6E1F4AE-D55A-4E6D-8CB7-96B61F1D34C1@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending the last TTWG call in 2024. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2024/12/19-tt-minutes.html In plain text: [1]W3C [1] https://www.w3.org/ Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 19 December 2024 [2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log. [2] https://www.w3.org/2024/12/05-tt-minutes.html [3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/297 [4] https://www.w3.org/2024/12/19-tt-irc Attendees Present Andreas, Atsushi, Cyril, Nigel, Pierre Regrets Gary Chair Nigel Scribe nigel Contents 1. [5]This meeting 2. [6]DAPT 1. [7]CR publication status 2. [8]Add an XSD w3c/dapt#273 3. [9]Add daptm:descType feature and permit user-defined values w3c/dapt#278 3. [10]IMSC 1.3 4. [11]Charter 2025 5. [12]AOB - Thanks for all your work in 2024! Meeting minutes This meeting Nigel: Today we have some DAPT stuff, IMSC 1.3 and Charter. … And an end of year AOB. … Anyone for anything else, or points to make sure we get to? Pierre: IMSC and ARIB Nigel: That's on the agenda DAPT CR publication status Nigel: I don't believe Atsushi has opened the transition request GitHub issue yet. … We have a late substantive PR, and there's a publication moratorium I think next week and the week after Atsushi: I haven't heard from Security WG and will ping Simone for this shortly. Nigel: I'm hoping we can get this published really soon in January Atsushi: I believe so. I plan to file the transition request issue , which is already 1.5 months ago … so I believe we can set a deadline of 0.5 or 1 month from now … In any case I will ping them - a normal amount of time has already elapsed. Add an XSD [13]w3c/dapt#273 [13] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/issues/273 github: [14]w3c/dapt#273 [14] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/273 Cyril: I thought there would be a quick way to run a command line tool to validate … a document against an XSD. … I didn't find one. … Maybe we should document that for people Nigel: I still feel sure there are command line tools. … I found a python library called xmlschema and another Java app that wraps native Java … functionality that should do it. … It's really easy to write a few lines of python to validate against the schema, … so one option is to create a validator and put it in the repo, or in a separate repo. … What's most useful here? Cyril: If I struggle, others would too. Obviously you can write a wrapper around a library, … and people might not be confident. … I agree, if you have a python wrapper it would help people. … Could be in the same repo, I don't know. Andreas: Usually a command line utility would work. I'm not sure what's wrong with this schema. Cyril: I tried xmllint and it didn't work. Saxon EE may have it, but Saxon HE doesn't. Andreas: Saxon EE definitely, it's well known, but it's not a free tool. … I can also check. As you say, it's not only an issue for DAPT but all other TTML schemas. … Pierre, you are also implementing an online schema validator, right? Pierre: Yes, just the Java one. It's a wrapper. … Very few command line validators work with more than one XSD. … If you have dependencies between XSDs it's much harder. … Online is best, right, because it's easiest for people to run. … But a command line wrapper that includes all the XSDs and loads them properly is probably easiest for the end user. Nigel: If it's going to help validate the PR I can add a few lines of Python and install instructions … into the repo. Cyril: I support that. SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to add a validator script that uses the XSD Nigel: Any other recommendations for command line validators also very welcome! Add daptm:descType feature and permit user-defined values [15]w3c/dapt#278 [15] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/issues/278 github: [16]w3c/dapt#278 [16] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/278 Nigel: This has an approval and has been open for 13 days, so my plan is to merge it tomorrow. … I wanted to raise it in a call because it's substantive. … And to give the opportunity for comment. Cyril: It feels like the Registry definition should state if user defined values should be allowed, … I mean guidance to registry authors to think about allowing user defined values. Nigel: We had it in one registry and not in the other. Cyril: Yes, we just missed it. Nigel: But this is more than that - we were missing an extension feature for descType, … so this adds that. … Once it's merged I'll add it to the implementation report. … [describes the PR as per the PR description] … Does anyone need more time for this? If not I'll merge it tomorrow. no requests for more time SUMMARY: @nigelmegitt to merge tomorrow if no new requests for change IMSC 1.3 Pierre: I plan to create an initial draft after the break Nigel: Great. Do you need any new repos? Pierre: No I don't think so Nigel: It's just about creating the document then Pierre: Yes. Sorry for the delay. … We're about to run out of time for any ARIB stuff … so unless there's something concrete in the next couple of weeks its not going to make it. … The window is closing. Nigel: We had some communication with ARIB. Are we expecting anything from them? Atsushi: We can send a liaison and continue with private conversations. … I suppose it is quite hard for them to make official statements in the timescale. Pierre: They've had 4 years! It's fine though, if they're not interested. Atsushi: I will contact them directly in person. … They need to get stamps from bottom to top for any official response, even if it's the same answer … that they give unofficially. … The easiest way is to ask them just in person about any updates and … after we update our spec and we ask them via an official liaison if it is fine for them then they … will say yes. Pierre: I do have a philosophical question: … So far we have done IMSC incrementally, incrementing version numbers. … Every time we have added and deprecated features. … The next version will presumably be 1.3. … Do we really want that or adopt a different scheme. … In 1.2 there was one feature in particular added, downloadable fonts. … I've not seen that used in practice. … Has it been used? … If not, should we consider deprecating it or is there a different mechanism … by which we can communicate to the world that it is not really used. … 1.2 also did other things like improving the document structure. Nigel: The need for a specific font is definitely something that the BBC has. … The mechanism for this depends on the delivery route. … In the UK there's an IP TV platform called Freely that uses a DASH implementation, and … BBC signals subtitles in DASH manifests for that, and uses a DVB DASH feature external … to the TTML document, which tells the player to load a font and associates it with a fontFamily name. … So our subtitles come out in our font. Pierre: The IMF (Interoperable Master Format) also does this. Andreas: And DVB TTML has a mechanism too. Pierre: Of all the features that's not one that's been requested. Nigel: My philosophical reason for being a bit keen at least to keep it is: … what if an IMSC document is referenced directly in a web page, that might have some kind of … polyfill or whatever for playing IMSC documents? Without the feature, there's no other … way to signal the need for a font. Pierre: I don't disagree, but we're far from having native playback of TTML in pages. … The question on my mind is do we want to carry around something that's aspirational, or not? … There are pluses and minuses. The minus is that it's not great to have an unimplemented feature. … It's a way to have bugs that we don't know, and a source for spec errors. … There are tons of things in HTML and CSS that are in the spec and partially implemented. … So we could go down that path. Andreas: I'm hesitant on that feature because it's not an exotic one. … The use case seems to be not very far away from what could be needed in operation. … If it's really an issue to carry this feature around we should ask the community, rather than … jumpting to deprecation. Nigel: We should think about path to deprecation, and the community. … The cost of retaining a feature already in a Rec is minimal. Pierre: The cost could be in user surprise though, if document authors use it and find it doesn't work. … It's only one feature among so many. … It sounds like for the first draft at least it will stay in, and we can think about it. Nigel: It's absolutely worth raising. Pierre: The challenge more widely is around interop. … Thanks for that, I appreciate the input. … I will create a set of PRs, one for every issue, and send them for review. Nigel: What will you raise them against? Pierre: The head of the repo is 1.2, as soon as we merge one then it will become a 1.3 ED. Nigel: In terms of timing, January should be fine. … Otherwise getting it in the new Charter could be awkward Pierre: It should be possible to merge at least one so we have a draft to point to. Charter 2025 Nigel: My draft charter PR has had approvals from everyone who needs to. … Atsushi, do you want me to merge it? Atsushi: You can merge it. … From now I need to issue advance notice to AC and update it in line with the Charter Template … and request Horizontal Review which takes maybe 1 month. … After that I don't think we will receive any comments but we may update minor things. … Then I will request a 1 month AC review period. … I will raise another pull request for the charter template changes. … Also if anyone in the WG or anyone from participating organisations in TTWG has any comments … on the current Charter please provide them as soon as possible. … Before bringing it to AC! <atsushi> [17]check at htmlpreview [17] https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/charter-timed-text/refs/heads/issue-0088/charter2025/index.html AOB - Thanks for all your work in 2024! Nigel: Thanks for all your hard work this year everyone, a small number of us doing a lot. … Have a good break if you're getting one. Pierre: Warmest wishes for the holidays and the new year Andreas: All the best from me for the new year - have a nice time Cyril: Likewise! Nigel: The next call will be 16th January. I cancelled the 2nd Jan one due to availability. … Let's adjourn for today and for 2024. See you next year! [adjourns meeting] Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by [18]scribe.perl version 240 (Tue Dec 10 03:59:59 2024 UTC). [18] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html
Received on Thursday, 19 December 2024 17:02:19 UTC