{Minutes} TTWG Teleconference 2023-01-19

Thanks all for attending the first TTWG call of this year. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-tt-minutes.html


Summary:


  *   Atsushi to action requesting an extension to the currently expired TTWG Charter
  *   Philippe to ask FO Council to make a decision, in absence of consensus for their proposal
  *   Nigel explained the direction of travel for DAPT in terms of TTML2 profile semantics
  *   Nigel introduced a GitHub discussion<https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/discussions/241> aimed at generating a reusable boilerplate Registry definition for TTWG use, initially in TTML2 and DAPT

Those minutes in text format:

   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

19 January 2023

   [2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2022/12/22-tt-minutes.html

      [3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/237

      [4] https://www.w3.org/2023/01/19-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Andreas, Atsushi, Cyril, Gary, Nigel, Philippe

   Regrets
          Pierre

   Chair
          Gary, Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

    1. [5]This meeting
    2. [6]Charter Status
    3. [7]DAPT
         1. [8]Clarify Profile Resolution semantics w3c/dapt#103
    4. [9]Defining a Registry #241
    5. [10]Meeting close

Meeting minutes

  This meeting

   Nigel: Today: Charter status, DAPT, Registries.
   … AOB?

   No other business

  Charter Status

   Nigel: Right now, our Charter is expired according to

   [11]TTWG Charters page

     [11] https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/timed-text/charters


   Philippe: At the minimum we need an extension basically

   Nigel: Yes

   Philippe: Action item on Atsushi to request at least a 3 month
   extension on the Charter so the group can continue to operate

   Atsushi: Will do

   Philippe: Thank you Atsushi

   Cyril: We're very close to FPWD for DAPT.
   … Will we be able to publish under the extension?

   Philippe: Yes if it is in the current Charter

   Nigel: Yes, it is.

   Philippe: Until further notice the current charter stays in
   effect

   Nigel: Question remains open about the status of the new
   Charter.
   … Philippe pinged Apple and Mozilla and there was a response
   from Mozilla.

   [12]Member only link to reminder

     [12] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-charters-review/2023Jan/0004.html


   Nigel: I responded to that.
   … What I want is to get to a determined state on this, somehow,
   as soon as possible.

   Philippe: Yes, I agree.
   … I am still working with Apple to get a response.
   … I also updated Amy yesterday by email.
   … The Team was tasked by the FO Council is to establish if the
   FO still stands.
   … Unless I can get some response I'm going to have to say back
   to the FO Council that it still stands.
   … I mentioned this to the AB in the previous hour and got no
   reaction other than a request to talk from Florian.
   … My expectation is that I will have to go back to the FO
   Council.
   … That's where we are.

   Nigel: My reflection here is that this situation was caused by
   non-responsiveness from Apple and that
   … situation is simply continuing. There has to be a limit here,
   I think we've reached it.

   Cyril: We still have a Director?

   Philippe: Formally speaking, TBL delegated it to Ralph who
   delegated it to me, but in doing that he
   … told me every FO has to run through the Council.
   … Until the Council has made a decision the Director won't do
   anything.
   … To me, I did warn you that your Charter would create issues
   and it did.
   … On the other hand, we are still extending so no technical
   work is impeded from happening at the moment.
   … That's what matters the most, that you guys can still do what
   you want to do.

   Nigel: Except for the opportunity cost.

   Philippe: You're welcome to say you just want a decision from
   the Council now if you want.

   Nigel: That's what I want. I see Gary nodding.

   Gary: Yes, I want the FO Council just to decide.
   … We're not immediately blocked but HRM might be blocked from
   progressing on the Rec track.

   Nigel: Since HRM is a refactor of existing Rec text I think it
   is in scope and we can work on it.

   Philippe: I don't think I could block it from being published
   as FPWD.

   Nigel: It's in WD, we will want to move it to CR.

   Cyril: I also approve the decision to ask the Council to make a
   decision

   Nigel: Thank you

   Nigel: Do we need to do anything else now Philippe?

   Philippe: No, I will check with Florian on Process, but
   assuming I'm in line then I will
   … go back to the Council and tell them the WG wants a decision,
   rather than bouncing the ball around.
   … You guys are welcome to give your feelings to the Council
   directly.

   Nigel: I don't think we are, unless we're invited to. Obviously
   we can contact Amy.

   Philippe leaves

  DAPT

    Clarify Profile Resolution semantics w3c/dapt#103

   <Github> [13]https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/103 : Clarify
   Profile Resolution semantics

     [13] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/103


   github: [14]https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/103


     [14] https://github.com/w3c/dapt/pull/103


   Nigel: I wanted to check in with you about where we're up to
   with this.
   … To formalise the requirements, the change is:
   … * Define some Extension features correspond to the normative
   MUST type language in the main body of the spec
   … * List dispositions of features and extensions, IMSC-style
   … * And then, also, for clarity, include a TTML2 Content
   Profile document and a TTML2 Processor Profile document.
   … Those are all in the appendix.
   … Partly this is driven by a gap in TTML2 processor profile
   inference semantics that looks hard to fix.
   … For implementers this means that there will effectively be a
   checklist of features and extensions
   … to implement, in the appendix, or they can just do what the
   normative statements in the body of the spec say.
   … Cyril and I have discussed this, I wanted to raise with the
   group in case anyone has any opinions or questions.
   … If this seems interesting, please take a look.
   … My next steps are that I am going through the normative
   statements in the body text
   … and making sure that we have extension features for all of
   them so
   … that the checklist approach will in fact work,
   … and I expect we may need to create tests scoped to each
   feature too,
   … for CR exit.
   … My hope is that by doing this work up-front that gets easier
   rather than harder.

   SUMMARY: Group informed of approach

  Defining a Registry #241

   Nigel: I started a GitHub discussion at [15]https://github.com/

   w3c/ttwg/discussions/241

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/discussions/241


   [16]GitHub Discussion on Registry

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/discussions/241


   Nigel: [goes through discussion points]
   … Motivation for this is we said we wanted to move some TTML2
   data into a Registry,
   … and we may need to do something similar for DAPT
   … My hope is that we can establish a single TTWG approach to
   the policy, custodian, rules etc
   … that we can reuse for any Registries without having to
   discuss this all again!
   … Some key assumptions are listed

   Gary: The Registry will be in a version control system?

   Nigel: Yes

   Atsushi: In fact the Registry Track document is on /TR and that
   is the final version control system

   Nigel: Yes, good point

   Atsushi: In any case some practical process needs to be in the
   document

   Nigel: Yes
   … Next steps:
   … Please look at the strawman proposal and note any comments or
   questions you have on the GitHub discussion page
   … Gary I saw you were agreeing with the assumptions about what
   is unfriendly to the world, so a positive
   … comment about that would be really helpful.
   … I'd like to spend maybe 2 meetings/4 weeks looking at this
   and then if we have consensus
   … the next stage is to write the proposal up more formally as
   boilerplate text that can be reused.
   … Make sense?

   Andreas: Yes!

   <atsushi> +1

   Atsushi: In case public-tt email reflector stops operating,
   there should be a catch-all implemented into the Process

   Nigel: the W3C Process, or this TTWG one?

   Atsushi: If the WG is closed and archived, and the mailing list
   is frozen, then some transition to
   … custodianship will happen. I am wondering how that relates to
   any custodianship rules in the Registry definition.
   … Which should we define and which should be considered in the
   Process.
   … I'm not sure what will happen after that.

   Nigel: It's a good point, we can't know, by definition, what
   will happen post-TTWG, assuming everything
   … ends at some point!
   … Maybe we should explicitly grant permission in our
   boilerplate for the Team to delegate it to some other group.

   Gary: It does seem like the Process should say something about
   Registries, if the WG is no longer around
   … then the Team can assign it to another WG or have some other
   way to receive and approve requests for
   … changes.

   Nigel: I will raise this with the Process CG
   … It's hypothetical, but one day folk will thank us for
   thinking ahead!

   Gary: For any W3C spec right?

   Atsushi: Yes. I spent many years in Japanese academic culture,
   and I've encountered these kinds of
   … process concerns many times.
   … What happens when the professor is gone?! I'm always curious
   about these kind of things.

   Atsushi: Do you want to have a new repository for the Registry?

   Nigel: I don't think we should have a new repo now.
   … The boilerplate can live in the TTWG repo,
   … and then it should be copied to wherever it is used later.

   Gary: Do we want a separate repo for each registry, or have it
   live in the repo of the referencing spec?

   Atsushi: I believe we can start a Registry document using
   Respec or Bikeshed
   … and we can set up a custom GitHub action to specify the
   document, so it should be fine
   … within TTML2 repo, but if we want to have a separate repo I
   need to set it up.

   Nigel: I couldn't find a way to do a Registry Track doc in
   Respec. Are there any examples?

   Atsushi: I believe Respec now has Registry configurations.

   [17]How can we configure Respec for Registry track documents?

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/discussions/241#discussioncomment-4729770


   Atsushi: I think it will be easier to configure a separate
   Repository per Registry Track doc
   … Especially having it in the same repository as an xmlspec
   based spec is a nightmare for me.

   Atsushi: Let me propose a separate repo for Registry track
   docs, please!

   Nigel: You're very welcome.

   Nigel: Any more on this topic?

  Meeting close

   Nigel: Thanks all. Happy New Year once again (we said it at the
   beginning but I didn't scribe it)
   … [adjourns meeting]


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     [18] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Received on Thursday, 19 January 2023 17:15:36 UTC