{Minutes} TTWG Meeting 2022-01-20

Thanks all for attending today’s TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-minutes.html


In plain text:

   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

20 January 2022

   [2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2021/12/09-tt-minutes.html

      [3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/208

      [4] https://www.w3.org/2022/01/20-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Atsushi, Nigel, Pierre

   Regrets
          Andreas, Gary

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

    1. [5]This meeting
    2. [6]IMSC HRM
         1. [7]Status on HR and WR
         2. [8]Issues (including HR issues)
    3. [9]Rechartering status update
    4. [10]Meeting close

Meeting minutes

  This meeting

   Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM and Rechartering
   … Any other business or points to cover?

   [group] No other business

  IMSC HRM

    Status on HR and WR

   Nigel: I've been having trouble locating the draft text Pierre
   sent me

   Pierre: I sent it and you replied, I'll send it again. (was Dec
   3)

   Nigel: Apologies for that.
   … That's for requesting WR.
   … Are we ready to send it yet? Need to check for open
   issues/pull requests.
   … I will make a few edits as proposed and then check back in.
   … We have 2 open pull requests and I think they're both
   editorial.

   Pierre: Yes, we could merge them. They were opened by one of
   the reviewers
   … so ideally they'd approve it. I requested review for both of
   them.

   Nigel: I was thinking that too.

   Pierre: We can just wait the 2 weeks and then merge.
   … I'm more concerned about some of the issues, like #27, where
   I really need to hear back from Sam Weiler.
   … I don't know how to get their attention.

   Nigel: Wonder if he's W3 staff.

   Pierre: I'm leery of doing a ton of work without confirmation
   that it will resolve the issue.

   Nigel: Agreed.

   Pierre: Who is pes10k?

   Nigel: I think we've met him before, not sure.

   Pierre: I've responded to them all, and suggest that we wait a
   couple of weeks for a response.

   <atsushi> Samuel Weiler is in PING

   Pierre: In the meantime we can focus on the liaison.

   <atsushi> pes10k is Peter Snyder (Brave Software) in PING

   Nigel: Thank you for that Atsushi.

   Atsushi: If the privacy group thinks a change is needed to the
   spec they will add a label.
  … If they have not added it then it is just a suggestion.

   Nigel: Thanks for that.
   … The question I have is if we should resolve all those issues
   before sending the Wide Review request,
   … and since they generally are about making the document easier
   to understand, I think it would be a good idea.
   … Looking at the issues, 3 of them have
   privacy-needs-resolution labels,
   … so I'd hope that the issue raisers would be engaged with
   those issues.
   … Have we got enough of an action plan in place now?

   Pierre: Yep!

   Nigel: Alright.

    Issues (including HR issues)

   Nigel: Any particular issues for discussion?

   Pierre: Not really, we're just waiting for the responses.
   … I'm more focused on getting the WR request out.
   … If anyone is going to propose changes to the thresholds of
   NBG, say, we need to know that
   … as soon as possible because the lead time to fix will be
   longer.
   … My suggestion is to get the requests out.

   Nigel: Do you have reason to expect a response like that?

   Pierre: Er, if you look at issue #5, span elements are included
   in NBG(R_i),
   … it turns out that there is a practice in some countries of
   separating successive subtitles
   … by one or two blank frames.
   … Apparently not putting any space is bad, and too much is
   worse, so that puts a particular
   … strain on the HRM because it requires a lot of background
   redraws, especially if you
   … end up using background on spans, it really taxes the HRM.
   … So issue 5 has one solution, to relax the cost of painting
   background behind spans,
   … but of course another approach which you hinted at, Nigel, is
   to increase the background
   … painting rates, and you're not the only one to have thought
   about this.
   … We should not act without data, but some organisations may
   have data that would
   … help us decide what to do.

   Nigel: Yes

   Pierre: The conclusion of the current thread is we should not
   do anything until we have concrete data.

   Nigel: Makes sense.

   Pierre: We don't need to do anything today other than work on
   this liaison.

  Rechartering status update

   Nigel: Current charter has been extended to 31st March 2022.

   [11]Updated Charter.

     [11] https://www.w3.org/2020/12/timed-text-wg-charter.html


   Atsushi: We got 3 months extension - I think that was sent to
   Chair's mailing list, no?

   Nigel: I didn't notice it, it may have done.
   … (we should assume it did)
   … I added this to the agenda for information.

   <atsushi> > Timed Text Working Group Charter extended until 31
   March 2022

   Nigel: I think aside from updating the Chair details
   (organisation), I think we've done everything.
   … Atsushi, any other actions needed?

   Atsushi: I am awaiting reply from W3M. plh says he is waiting
   for a reply from you Nigel.

   Nigel: [checks]
   … Philippe is probably waiting for Gary to complete the IE
   form, I don't think he's waiting for anything from me.
   … I will ping him and ask if he needs anything from me.

   Atsushi: I think I sent a short summary to you, end of last
   year.
   … There is some concern about WebVTT status - CR is from 2019
   and we don't list
   … it as an inflight document, and just point to our wiki that
   was last updated more than half a year ago.
   … I think that is the main item.

   Nigel: I think it's fair to be concerned about those.
   … We should be able to update the deliverables wiki page, if
   only to add the IMSC-HRM document.

   Atsushi: I think it is already listed in the Charter.

   Nigel: Yes but is it in the deliverables wiki page?
   … On WebVTT I have a lot of sympathy on both sides - I think
   there has been a threat
   … to drop it for at least 2 charter cycles so it's up to W3M to
   decide what to do.

   Atsushi: We could publish a CRD to show activity.

   Nigel: But there hasn't been any activity?
   … We could do that, but I don't think it addresses the problem.

   Pierre: Could you summarise the issue or concern?

   Atsushi: The main concern is that it looks like activity on
   WebVTT has been suspended, from outside.
   … There are a bunch of issues that haven't had updates and the
   latest version is the 2019 edition.
   … We need to show that we are willing to pursue WebVTT to get
   it to Recommendation.

   Pierre: Or we could not, publish a WG Note.

   Nigel: I think there's a specific "not maintained Rec" status
   rather than Note, but that's a detail.

   Pierre: My suggestion is to explore that, freeze it, and when
   folk decide to work on it again then they can.

   Nigel: Okay, I think it is not fair to have this discussion
   without Gary.

   Pierre: We should initiate the conversation, by putting a
   proposal forward. It may not be to everyone's preference.
   … What about that?

   Nigel: We could do that.

   Pierre: The two extremes don't make sense - we can't just drop
   it from the Charter,
   … and having it sitting there without progress is not
   palatable, which is a good observation.

   [12]Abandoning an Unfinished Recommendation

     [12] https://www.w3.org/2021/Process-20211102/#abandon-draft


   Pierre: I hate that term

   Nigel: It sounds too final

   Pierre: Anyway we should just put that on the table.
   … It's called "Discontinued Draft".

   Nigel: Yes that's right.

   Pierre: Let's just do it.

   Nigel: I want to know W3M's view as well as Gary's. Let me
   start a private email thread.

   Atsushi: Again, it should be fine if we can show we are working
   on WebVTT.
   … It may be possible to show our activity or interest by
   creating a new CRD and pushing to CR.
   … We can also state that we have some PRs merged in the last
   year.
   … I don't think dropping it from our next Charter is a good
   idea.

   Nigel: I can see that there have been merged PRs, for example
   for unbounded TextTrackCue end time.
   … So yes, we should get those published.
   … Something has to happen one way or the other. I agree with
   the external view that it looks like nothing is happening.
   … In summary, we're waiting for W3M feedback and the change or
   organisation for Gary.
   … Anything else to be said?

  Meeting close

   Nigel: Okay, thanks, next meeting in 2 weeks, perhaps with
   something substantive to discuss.
   … [adjourns meeting]


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