{Minutes} TTWG Meeting 2021-07-22

Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-minutes.html


Today's work was to draft outbound comms seeking any experience-based issues with the IMSC HRM specification.

Those minutes in text format:

   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

22 July 2021

   [2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2021/07/08-tt-minutes.html

      [3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/193

      [4] https://www.w3.org/2021/07/22-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Andreas, Mike, Nigel, Pierre

   Regrets
          Atsushi, Gary

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

    1. [5]This meeting
    2. [6]IMSC HRM Strategy and Comms
    3. [7]AOB - TPAC
    4. [8]Meeting close

Meeting minutes

  This meeting

   Nigel: Today we have IMSC HRM strategy and comms
   … and the TTML2 issue on the agenda has since been closed by
   merging the pull request.
   … Is there any other business?
   … [hears no other business]
   … Then let's proceed.

  IMSC HRM Strategy and Comms

   Nigel: Members have been emailing on the member-only reflector
   following
   … my first and second drafts of comms to go out about the HRM.
   … Thanks for the good discussion, let's see if we can converge.
   … Probably its worth going back to the top and thinking what we
   want from these comms,
   … since there are pulls in slightly different directions.
   … I thought that we wanted to tell the world that we are
   working on the HRM specification
   … due to implementer feedback, and inviting anyone else
   interested to participate.
   … Are there other goals, or are they the wrong ones?

   Mike: I have reservations about giving the impression that the
   HRM in IMSC 1.0.1 is in some way imperfect or unstable.

   Andreas: I checked on the minutes from last meeting and I think
   the main part of our discussion
   … was about how to deal best with the HRM and the different
   IMSC versions, and how to streamline or out-factor it,
   … and get a better publication strategy.
   … Then we noted at the end that possibly there is a bit of
   feedback missing on how the HRM is used in general,
   … then the idea came to invite people to look at it.
   … I think the main idea was to get some feedback on how it is
   used, in whatever way.
   … Maybe we need to refine it a bit based on the discussion, how
   big we want to make this issue.
   … We could take Pierre's approach of saying "please use it,
   there's a real world application", and let
   … us know if there are real world impacts.
   … I also liked your proposal Nigel to explain what the HRM is.
   … But this also does not have to happen now; as Pierre noted we
   are not yet sure what direction it takes.
   … And maybe make a bigger thing out of it later.

   Nigel: Straw poll: based on the discussion, please could you
   say with a +1 if you think comms are still a good idea, -1 if
   not?

   <pal> +1

   <mike_> +1

   <atai> +1

   +1

   Nigel: OK, we're all still in favour, so let's get the message
   right.
   … What to do? Edit the text directly.

   Mike: Let's list what we want.
   … It's important to announce that there's an implementation of
   the HRM, because that's what's driving this.
   … And invite people to comment, and use it, and provide
   feedback.
   … I think that's sufficient, but (apologies for not making many
   meetings) I understand that there's interest in TTWG
   … in an activity to look more closely at the HRM, and I think
   that's okay.
   … The tutorial material is good, but we shouldn't lead with it,
   because a lot of people probably don't know what an HRM is,
   … as evidenced by the email exchange.
   … I would stop short of document structure, specific issues,
   what may or may not happen in 1.1 vs 1.0.1 - I think we need

   <atai> +1

   Mike: to stay away from that right now.

   Andreas: I would agree with what Mike says. The minimal
   communication I think is already reflected
   … in Pierre's proposal. That's the shortest thing you can do
   now.
   … Then later, I'm not sure if we are missing feedback to get a
   better idea what to do
   … to develop or fix the HRM or whatever.
   … Apart from this announcement, which I think Pierre's proposal
   would be a good one,
   … if we later then decide to make changes on it or out-factor
   it, then it would be a good idea to go into more detail,
   … say it's out there, ask for feedback. That could be in the
   second stage.

   Nigel: Pierre, the thrust of your draft is to request feedback
   based on experience of using your open source
   … implementation on real documents. Is the goal of your
   implementation to be a reference implementation?

   Pierre: The intent is to match the specification. If someone
   else had an implementation with different results then we'd
   want to know that.

   Nigel: Just covering other points in the thread, I have the end
   state in mind - we're here to work on specification changes,
   … so under W3C Process, I need to have a path towards getting
   any spec changes to Rec, in the long run.
   … Gathering information is good, in so far as it helps us
   understand where the spec issues are.

   Mike: Can we return to the comms?

   Pierre: Agree, and also want to return to the comms.

   Nigel: Is there anything else we need to gather as a goal
   before looking at the comms text?

   Mike: The comms should not imply or state that there's anything
   necessarily wrong or unstable with the HRM.

   Nigel: Agree with the goal.

   Nigel: Let's work on the doc together. [shares text editor on
   screen]
   … [group works on the text directly]
   … I've emailed that as a response to the thread.
   … By the way I've also contacted the Comms team, but haven't
   had a response yet.
   … Any last thoughts, or stuff that we've forgotten to cover, on
   this topic?

   Pierre: Looks good. Looking forward to feedback.

   Nigel: I'll allow a little more time for any other members to
   comment, and then
   … get this published as soon as I have a response from the
   Comms team.

  AOB - TPAC

   Nigel: If we do get feedback on HRM, could it be a good topic
   for TPAC?

   Pierre: Trying not to get on my soapbox - let's deal with
   issues as they come in rather than looking for reasons for
   meetings at TPAC.

   Nigel: Right, the list we have now is not hugely compelling,
   and we can deal with issues any time.

  Meeting close

   Nigel: We've completed our agenda, let's wrap it up there,
   thanks for all your contributions everyone.
   … [adjourns meeting]


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