{minutes} TTWG Meeting 2019-01-10

Thanks all for attending today’s TTWG meeting, and to Cyril for scribing. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-minutes.html


In text format:


   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

10 Jan 2019

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/11


   See also: [3]IRC log

      [3] https://www.w3.org/2019/01/10-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Nigel, Cyril, Andreas, Gary, Glenn, Pierre

   Regrets

   Chair
          Nigel

   Scribe
          cyril, nigel

Contents

     * [4]Topics
         1. [5]TTML Profile Registry
         2. [6]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57

         3. [7]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/5

            6
         4. [8]TTWG Future Requirements
         5. [9]Joint F2F meeting
         6. [10]CSS actions review
         7. [11]TTML2
         8. [12]WebVTT
     * [13]Summary of Action Items
     * [14]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <cyril> scribe: cyril

   nigel: no objection or addition to the agenda?
   ... agenda is approved as posted

   gkatsev: I started looking at the preliminary impl report and I
   can give an overview

TTML Profile Registry

   nigel: there are 2 PR and one issue marked for agenda

   <glenn> [15]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55


     [15] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55


   github: [16]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55


     [16] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/55


   nigel: there is one particular comment that need discussion
   ... It's about the IANA registration part
   ... this PR adds text that says the document augments the
   registration
   ... but this document defines the MIME type and cannot augment
   it

   glenn: I looked at it a bit more and now agree with you
   ... we can change without IANA approval afaik

   nigel: afaik

   glenn: then I will edit it and should be able to resolve that

   nigel: is it worth going over any other part of this PR

   glenn: no

   nigel: then we'll continue the discussion about how we
   reference other specs offline

   summary: editor has a way forward to deal with review comments
   on IANA registration

[17]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57


     [17] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57


   github: [18]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57


     [18] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/pull/57


   nigel: this PR creates a JSON in the repository to make it
   easier to view PR
   ... it's enabled on all repositories of W3C but it needs this
   file

   glenn: I'll approve that, I don't know what previewing a PR
   means

   nigel: at the top of the PR, preview and diff links get added

   glenn: I don't think this is enable in TTML2

   nigel: it works for respec and bikeshed specs, not for more
   complicated specs

   SUMMARY: Glenn will approve and merge it

[19]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


     [19] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


   github-bot:
   [20]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


     [20] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


   <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
   'help'.

   github-bot:
   [21]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56


     [21] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issue/56


   <github-bot> cyril, Sorry, I don't understand that command. Try
   'help'.

   github:
   [22]https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


     [22] https://github.com/w3c/tt-profile-registry/issues/56


   atai2: we need to double-check the reference

   nigel: maybe the etx2 is wrong

   atai2: it points to 3350
   ... it's not wrong, designator and identifier is correct
   ... what may need to be adjusted is the link to the
   specification
   ... but I need to double check it

   nigel: in the current editor's draft, there are version links
   to the 1-0 and 1-2 but there is no link to 1-1.
   ... it could be my mistake or something is wrong in the EBU
   specs

   atai2: I think you are right
   ... there should be EBU-TT 1.1

   SUMMARY: Nigel will open a PR to modify ext2 to point to EBU-TT
   1.1

TTWG Future Requirements

   nigel: we have nothing labelled for agenda in the issues
   ... for the things I've raised I owe the group a bit more
   details
   ... I'll provide more until the next meeting
   ... no one seems to want to add more now, action everybody to
   continue reviewing the current issues and ask for details

Joint F2F meeting

   <nigel> [23]Meeting wiki page

     [23] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-jan-2019


   nigel: according to the wiki, we have 4 people listed as
   attending
   ... thank you andreas for the doodle for the dinner
   ... thank you thierry for updating the wiki page
   ... any admin questions?

   cyril: I won't able to travel
   ... will there be a way to join in

   nigel: no problem in setting up a webex
   ... Frans already set up of webex for the friday morning
   ... I will set up one for the thursday meeting
   ... I've given myself action 16
   ... also I want to mention that the joint meeting with the EBU
   timed text on the friday morning will discuss live
   contributions
   ... there is a proposal that 2 people will report on their
   implementation experience: Matt Simpson and me
   ... we shouldn't spend more than 30 min on these 2 slots
   ... do people have things to contribute?
   ... If you have any idea, please get in touch with me
   ... the other slightly admin point is that we'll do it as a W3C
   meeting in terms of IPR

   glenn: on impl experience, are you limiting it to the live
   scope?

   nigel: it is specifically on live contributions

   atai2: speaking as a EBU co-chair, we also want to discuss how
   the EBU TT group and the W3C TT group can collaborate
   ... we have most of the members in one room
   ... we should discuss what should be done in w3c and what
   should be done in ebu tt
   ... what should moved to w3c if any
   ... I want to make it one topic

   cyril: I would also be interested in discussing what can be
   done for the EBU features that are in IMSC and not in TTML2
   ... the fact that IMSC1.1 is not a strict subset of TTML2
   ... for example, discussing if copyright of EBU TT features
   could be transfered to W3C

   atai2: it would be good to discuss if the EBU TT group thinks
   extension will be done in the future in EBU or should be done
   in W3C

   nigel: a slighlty broader point is that TTML is extensible but
   what happens when an extension needs to be adopted more broadly
   ... I would like to understand why any change is needed
   ... it may not be the most elegant thing (several namespaces)
   but it's not that bad
   ... we need to motivate a change

   cyril: there are 2 parts: one is the fact that we have multiple
   namespaces but the first point is having one place to find the
   specification

   nigel: we also want to modularize

   cyril: it's harder to implement a spec if you have to pull
   sub-specs from different orgs

   nigel: I can go ahead and edit the wiki for the agenda
   ... anything else?
   ... no

CSS actions review

   nigel: I don't think there is anything to discuss

TTML2

   glenn: just a clarification, you mentioned future editorial
   changes
   ... I'm distinguishing between new features and substantive
   changes to existing features
   ... the issues I've been filing recently come from my internal
   list made during the finalization of the 1st edition
   ... I have about a dozen more
   ... hope to finish that before the meeting if we want to
   discuss some of them

   nigel: they are indeed editing tasks, not necessarily editorial

   pal: on that TTML2 topic, we had discussed requiring test cases
   to be submitted with tickets
   ... we should stick to that

   glenn: I don't recall that
   ... this is not a bad idea

   nigel: that would apply to the substantive changes
   ... a test case would be very helpful

   pal: it helps folks testing their implementation quickly

   glenn: also important for when we need to move to PR

   nigel: it also helps for the review of the spec

   glenn: makes it more concrete

   RESOLUTION: we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
   substantive changes

WebVTT

   nigel: gkatsev wants to give an update

   gkatsev: I've started looking a bit more
   ... big initiative on wpt.fyi
   ... has an interop section
   ... shows you which test passes in 1, 2 or 3 browsers
   ... for the things that can be tested automatically, I'll use
   that

   <nigel> [24]web-platform-tests dashboard for webvtt

     [24] https://wpt.fyi/results/webvtt?label=master&label=stable&aligned


   gkatsev: overall 80% of the features are implemented in 2 or
   more browsers
   ... there are some features for which I'm not sure
   ... for those that won't pass, I'll discuss with Silvia
   ... but 80% seems not as bas as I thought

   cyril: what about the new features: regions, styles

   gkatsev: safari 12.1 is supposed to support regions
   ... VLC supports it
   ... those 2 should qualify as implementation

   nigel: can you clarify how you reached the number of 80%

   gkatsev: I ignored rendering because they do not run
   automatically
   ... the value reported on wpt.fyi is wrong

   atai

   cyril

   atai2: do you have an idea if the WPT fully covers the version
   of WebVTT

   gkatsev: I am not 100% sure but it seems the coverage is very
   good
   ... but we need to make sure it is before we can rely on WPT

   atai2: I'm not sure when the tests in WPT were made
   ... we should check if changes to the spec were made after the
   tests were added to WPT

   tmichel

   tmichel: I am wondering about the coloring of the cells
   ... light green vs yellow

   gkatsev: I assumed the darker the green the higher the % of
   passing tests
   ... I think region is the most recent and has more risk

   tmichel: you mentioned VLC as a pretty good candidate for
   region support
   ... how do we test that?

   gkatsev: we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT
   file in VLC and see how it work
   ... we can't test it automatically but we can load a VTT file
   in VLC and see how it works

   <nigel> scribe: nigel

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [25]we reaffirm that we want to have test vectors for
       substantive changes

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version 1.154 ([27]CVS log)
    $Date: 2019/01/10 17:08:24 $

     [26] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm

     [27] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/






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Received on Thursday, 10 January 2019 17:28:58 UTC