{Minutes} TTWG Meeting 2019-12-05

Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2019/12/05-tt-minutes.html


In text format:

   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/


                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

05 December 2019

   [2]Previous meeting. [3]Agenda. [4]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/2019/11/21-tt-minutes.html

      [3] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/81

      [4] https://www.w3.org/2019/12/05-tt-irc


Attendees

   Present
          Andreas, Atsushi, Gary, Nigel, Pierre

   Regrets
          Cyril, Glenn

   Chair
          Nigel, Gary

   Scribe
          nigel

Contents

     * [5]Meeting minutes
         1. [6]This meeting
         2. [7](Re-)join to timed text WG after charter renewal
         3. [8]IMSC 1.2 FPWD Next steps
         4. [9]WebVTT
         5. [10]ADPT
         6. [11]AOB - Profile Designator for IMSC 1.2 Image
            Profile
         7. [12]Meeting close

Meeting minutes

   Log: [13]https://www.w3.org/2019/12/05-tt-irc


     [13] https://www.w3.org/2019/12/05-tt-irc


This meeting

   Nigel: Agenda for today

   Gary: I will give an update in the WebVTT section

   Nigel: Any other business?

   group: no other business

(Re-)join to timed text WG after charter renewal

   Atsushi: Since TTWG Charter renewed with additional
   deliverables, that means the past participants of TTWG
   … list is reset and everyone needs to rejoin the WG. Actually I
   also am not sure what is happening.
   … Some may need to leave and rejoin the WG. The list of
   participants page still lists the old Charter participants.
   … Please check the status page of the WG and check your company
   is listed.

   [14]TTWG Status Page

     [14] https://www.w3.org/2004/01/pp-impl/34314/status


   Atsushi: You need to join within 45 days of charter renewal.
   Please don't forget!

   Andreas: It's important to send an email out with this
   information because a lot of members of the group do not join
   the calls.

   Atsushi: Yes, actually I wonder how to write these points. Let
   me seek some more information and explain what to do
   … if anyone has any troubles.

   [15]Action for Atsushi to send the email

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/86


IMSC 1.2 FPWD Next steps

   Nigel: Now we have published IMSC 1.2 FPWD (thank you!), just
   want to check in about next steps.
   … I think we have one or two spec issues and I need to contact
   the liaisons as listed in the Charter to request wide review.
   … Is there anything else we need to do?

   group: nothing more

   Nigel: I'll send something based on previous WR requests,
   highlighting the main new feature.

   Pierre: Happy to review the wording.

   Nigel: Thank you, I'll take you up on that.

   [16]Request WR for IMSC 1.2 ttwg#87

     [16] https://github.com/w3c/ttwg/issues/87


   Nigel: There are open issues on IMSC 1.2 that have not
   necessarily been resolved.

   Pierre: I think many of those could be closed as not an issue -
   we may not have the right quorum right now.
   … My recommendation would be to close without action for most
   of them.

   Nigel: I'll add a comment to the issues and note that if more
   discussion is needed for those remaining open then I
   … will allocate time for them during next week's call.

   Pierre: Take issue 493 for instance.

   [17]itts:forcedDisplay should apply to image element in image
   profile imsc#493

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/493


   Pierre: I think it is not necessary because all images are in
   div wrappers and forcedDisplay applies to div, so we can
   … fix as no change, at least for now, or defer to a future
   version.

   Nigel: These are not urgent but I will signal the desire to
   cover them next week.

   Pierre: The other one is 506

   [18]Potential semantic conflict between ttp:profile and
   ttp:contentProfiles. imsc#506

     [18] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/506


   Pierre: I think where Glenn and I ended up is that this is
   complicated and it's up to the user and we're talking about
   … corner cases so there's nothing here to do I think.

   Nigel: I was concerned from this thread that there may end up
   being some kind of ambiguity in the TTML2 algorithm
   … that isn't really dealt with. I'm not sure if that's the
   case.

   Pierre: On that point the TTML2 algorithm is very clear. What
   is not clear is whether or not there is a normative
   … requirement for validators to highlight inconsistencies.

   Nigel: Such as?

   Pierre: Such as having an effective processor profile that does
   not support features that are permitted in the effective
   … content profile.

   Nigel: Crumbs!

   Pierre: The algorithms for getting those effective profiles are
   completely unambiguous. A smart validator might want
   … to flag inconsistencies, such as the mismatch between
   processor and content profiles.
   … My conclusion is the algorithm is clear but what is not clear
   is what if any action a validator should take.
   … For example if you signal a content profile that is
   inconsistent with the processor profile but the document
   doesn't
   … include any of the offending features, is that bad? Maybe
   it's intended. Hard to tell.

   Nigel: Right and we don't have any requirement in the spec that
   says that if contentProfiles is present and says, say,
   … Image profile, then the processorProfiles must minimally
   include something requiring support for Image profile.

   Pierre: Yes, we had a long discussion about that. Instead what
   we say is the list of profiles that the processor must
   … support, and it's up to the author not to do anything stupid.

   Nigel: Any evidence about how much of a real world issue this
   is?

   Pierre: Fairly confident it is zero.
   … The spec recommends a particular style of signalling, and if
   people follow that then they won't run into this issue.
   … The risk is minimal to non-existing.
   … The vast majority of users will just signal one or the other,
   Text or Image and that's it.

   Nigel: Thanks for helping clarify that.

   Pierre: Another one in this category is 492

   [19]tts:position should be permitted in image profile imsc#492

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/492


   Pierre: This is another one where I think we should defer or
   close as won't fix.

   Nigel: Right, makes sense to me.
   … Again, if there were some real driver or demand for this from
   the user community I would suggest revisiting.

   Pierre: Basically every single Image based IMSC document is a
   bunch of divs with smpteBackground and that's it.
  … I think folks have been happy just using origin and extent
   and smpte:backgroundImage.

   Nigel: Okay let's aim to get a decision and closure on these by
   the end of next week's meeting.

   Pierre: Thanks

   Nigel: Anything else on IMSC 1.2?

   Pierre: No, thanks for getting it out the door.

   Nigel: Seconded.

WebVTT

   <gkatsev> [20][IR] entities test is failing webvtt#464

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/464


   Gary: Pretty short update. We recently received a PR for vtt.js
   that updates how escaping is done and this means that
   … the HTML entities are now fully escaped properly and show up
   properly. So the entities test now has enough
   … implementations. Slowly, but we're making progress on
   completing the outstanding issues on the IR.

   Nigel: I see there are lots of open PRs and issue on WebVTT.

   Gary: I need to go through those. They've been sitting around
   and noone has complained so they're good to merge by now.

  Nigel: Are any of them substantive?

   Gary: I believe so, yes.

ADPT

   Nigel: This is the AD Profiles of TTML2. I just wanted to
   update the group on two things.
   … First, the repo has been transferred into TTWG. There are a
   bunch of issues I need to handle editorially, and some
   … pull requests too.
   … I'm planning to spend some concentrated effort on this
   hopefully in January so we can get to FPWD.
   … Next on my queue after that would be the TTML Live Extensions
   modules.

AOB - Profile Designator for IMSC 1.2 Image Profile

   Pierre: This is related to an issue Cyril opened, which is that
   the change in profile designators was not listed in
   … the substantive change section. Issue 508.

   [21]Change in profile designators missing from Substantive
   Change section imsc#508

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/508


   Pierre: Cyril is correct that the substantive changes section
   needs to be updated, that's clear.
   … It's also clear that the Text profile feature designator has
   to be revved up because some features were added to the
   … text profile. But nothing happened to the Image Profile.
   … I think what probably happened is I revved it up in
   anticipation of changes to Image Profile but no changes were
   … actually made. So I think we should leave the Image profile
   designator the same, 1.1, or add some text to say the
   … effective profile designator has not been changed.
   … I can see how revving up with no change would be confusing
   but equally not revving up would be confusing.
   … We should fix it quickly if we're going to change it.
   … As a data point, if we had the profiles in two separate
   documents the Image document would not have changed
   … so the profile designator would not have changed. I think
   that's the technically correct solution.

   Nigel: I think there's no reason we can't address this next
   publication. In the meantime please could you add an
   … editor's note to the profile designators section in the ED
   that this issue exists?

   Pierre: Alright, and I'll create a separate issue for tracking
   this.
   … The issue will be about whether or not the designators should
   change given the lack of substantive change to the profile.

   Nigel: Makes sense, thank you.

   Nigel: Any instant views from the group on this question?

   group: [no instant views]

   Nigel: That's an interesting question, let's have a think about
   it.

   Pierre: I plan to issue a PR shortly to address imsc#495 and
   imsc#508.

   Nigel: Thanks for the head-up.

Meeting close

   Nigel: We've completed our agenda. Thanks everyone! [adjourns
   meeting]


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Received on Thursday, 5 December 2019 17:13:04 UTC