- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2018 15:18:02 +0000
- To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D7DBEABA.69AED%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2018/10/04-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
04 Oct 2018
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] https://www.w3.org/2018/10/04-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Cyril, Nigel, Glenn, Pierre, Thierry
Regrets
None
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]PR transition requests
3. [6]WCAG 2.1 instead of WCAG 2.0? imsc#465
4. [7]Check dependency on CSS 3 Color. ttml1#370
5. [8]IMSC 1.1, TTML1 3rd Ed, TTML2 PRs
6. [9]TTML Profile Registry
7. [10]TPAC 2018
8. [11]Meeting close
* [12]Summary of Action Items
* [13]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
Nigel: On the agenda today we have a very quick status update
on the PR transitions,
... a couple of issues raised by the Director during the
transition request assessment,
... and two issues on the TTML Profile Registry.
... Then TPAC2018 and I think that's all for our agenda.
... Any other points to raise or other business?
group: [no other points]
PR transition requests
Nigel: As I notified to the reflector earlier, our PR
transition requests were approved and
... all three specifications were published today.
Congratulations everyone, and thank
... you for your hard work getting us here.
Thierry: The AC survey asks for endorsement to move to Rec or
request modifications
... or raise formal objection.
Glenn: Approve as-is, see changes, disapprove, and if so, why,
and it asks if your company
... plans to implement etc.
... I already have submitted ours.
Nigel: I think BBC has submitted our response also.
... I generally encourage all AC Reps to submit a response,
especially if it is a positive one!
Thierry: Probably we should ping the companies that are
involved in accessibility - these
... people would definitely support TTML.
Nigel: Good point
... I will also prompt the AD CG.
Glenn: The M&E IG would be worth prompting.
Cyril: Maybe we could send them an email.
Glenn: I would suggest a private message rather than a group
email. There's no rule why not though.
Nigel: I will send an informative email highlighting to those
groups that the PRs have
... been published and explaining the next step is for members
to vote via their AC reps.
... Two issues were raised during the transition assessment,
one on IMSC, the other
... on TTML1 and TTML2 by reference.
WCAG 2.1 instead of WCAG 2.0? imsc#465
github: [14]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/465
[14] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/465
Nigel: Is everyone in favour of deferring an update of the WCAG
2.0 reference to 2.1 until
... a later edition or version of IMSC (after the Rec)?
Thierry: If we want to put it in the Rec that could be do-able,
if it is not a normative change.
Pierre: It is a normative change.
Glenn: We've treated changes to normative references as
normative changes in the past.
Nigel: Just to confirm, IMSC Appendix D is normative and the
reference to WCAG 2.0 is
... normative, so it would be a substantive change.
... Presumably that means we could not do it in Rec even if we
wanted to?
Thierry: Yes, I think it could be trouble - in that case I
would rather delay.
Nigel: Any objections to deferring to a later edition or
version of IMSC?
group: [no objections]
Nigel: We have consensus
RESOLUTION: Defer adoption of WCAG 2.1 to a future edition or
version of IMSC.
Check dependency on CSS 3 Color. ttml1#370
github: [15]https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/370
[15] https://github.com/w3c/ttml1/issues/370
Glenn: Background here would be useful. The reason we made it a
normative reference
... was that at the time we published TTML1 there was no formal
definition of opacity in
... either CSS-land or XSL-land. The only thing we could go
from was the CSS3 color work
... that was under way and was just arriving at Rec in its
first edition
... as we were coming to close on TTML1 (1st edition).
... There was some discussion about whether to make it
informative or normative.
... One of the comments was that there was potential
dependency. Being conservative we
... decided to bump it up to be a normative reference.
... Looking back, that was probably not the best thing to do.
It falls into the category
... of some of the other CSS specs we have used for derivation
purposes.
... Also, earlier, some of the derivations were not in notes;
now they all are in notes.
... That's the history. My conclusion after going through this
cycle with Ralph would be
... that it wouldn't hurt to make it an informative reference
and be aligned with our other
... derivation references.
... XSL is a normative reference because we used a lot of its
terminology and model, so
... we do have normative derivations from XSL.
... I wouldn't mind keeping the reference in the normative
section or moving it to the
... informative section. I would probably give preference to
moving to informative for
... consistency, in the next edition, not now unless someone is
screaming for it now.
... If a commenter says "support but only with these changes"
then that could trigger
... making changes to the spec.
... We can't rule that out.
Nigel: Thanks, that makes sense.
... In my view the reference is only made from informative
sections so it is an informative
... reference. It is moot whether the bibliography entry is in
the normative or informative
... section. We could move it with no change in status.
Glenn: I agree, for consistency we should move it to the
informative references section.
Nigel: If we think this is only an editorial change, could we
make this change?
Pierre: For the record, I think we should not touch the
document.
Glenn: Unless someone is really calling for it, outside this
group, I agree.
Thierry: If we have an AC rep complaining then we could look at
this.
Glenn: Yes
Nigel: My question Thierry was really about the possible, not
what we should do.
Thierry: If its an editorial change, we could do it, but if its
a bigger change then that's different.
Nigel: Okay I think I'm hearing consensus for making no change
immediately, and deferring
... this to a future edition, unless there is a strong call
from the AC review to make a change,
... in which case we will review based on the AC review
comments we receive.
RESOLUTION: Defer this issue to a future edition unless there
is a strong call from the AC review to make a change, in which
case we may revisit this based on whatever AC review comment
applies.
IMSC 1.1, TTML1 3rd Ed, TTML2 PRs
Nigel: I think the only thing remaining on IMSC 1.1, TTML1 3rd
Ed and TTML2 is to merge
... the PR pull requests and begin work preparing the Rec
versions in new pull requests.
Glenn: Please could you approve the pull request?
Nigel: I've just approved ttml2#1007.
Pierre: For IMSC I will merge the pull request and then take it
from there.
TTML Profile Registry
Nigel: EBU raised two issues on this earlier today, which I'd
like to mention quickly.
... Now is a good time to start thinking about updates to the
document.
... The two issues were 1: #42, Add EBU-TT Profiles, which
simply lists some requested
... changes. They add updated versions of EBU-TT and EBU-TT-D
specifications.
... I'm not sure who will raise the pull request - I might do
it.
... Can I assume there are no objections to adding those?
Cyril: None from me, but what is the xpath?
Nigel: It's the location where the document conformance data
can be found inside the
... document instance.
Cyril: Is that in the registry already?
Nigel: Yes
Cyril: I see it is in the second table.
Nigel: yes
... The other issue is #43 Add informative mention of EBU-TT
Metadata
... This is a request to add an informative appendix in which
related documents can be
... described. In this case the request is to add the EBU-TT
Metadata vocabulary definition
... which is aimed at contribution, exchange and archive of
subtitle and caption documents.
... It's just a request to list it, with no requirement for
anyone to use it.
Cyril: Why? Those specs are already mentioned.
Nigel: There's a bit more background - the metadata vocabulary
was removed from the
... newer spec versions and moved to a separate spec, hence the
request.
Cyril: What is the new document?
[16]EBU Tech3390 Metadata
[16] https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3390.pdf
Cyril: Instead of having an appendix, I feel that people will
want to add lots of things,
... that it may not be the right place for, but instead say
that the ebuttm: namespace is
... defined in Tech3390 and reference that from section ยง4.2,
below the table, in a note.
... "Elements defined in the ebuttm: prefix are defined in
Tech3390..."
Nigel: That's a good idea.
... Would you mind adding that suggestion to the issue?
Cyril: Sure
Nigel: If there are no other thoughts on that issue, just a
reminder we need to create
... pull requests for adding TTML2 profiles (issue #39) and
address issue #38 on how to
... handle Content Profiles vs Processor Profiles.
... I still haven't got any answers for how to do that in this
document.
... Formally, Mike Dolan was the most recent Editor for this
document. I don't know if he
... still wants to work on this, but any of us can prepare pull
requests etc.
Cyril: We need to do IMSC 1.1 too.
Nigel: There's already a pull request open for that, we just
need to merge it.
... Planning-wise, if we are able to publish an updated version
of this on the same day as
... the Recs that would be elegant.
Cyril: I'm re-reading that document and am surprised by some of
the text. It says it
... is the MIME type registration but also that it is a
registry that may be updated.
... I will create an issue on the wording there - it needs to
say it _contains_ a registry, not
... that it _is_ a registry.
TPAC 2018
Nigel: We haven't made much progress towards a joint meeting
with CSS WG and at this
... stage I'm not sure if we need one. I did notice that they
are planning a joint meeting
... with i18n and put out a call for agenda topics - that might
be something we want to
... check out and add things to? Any members who are both CSS
WG and TTWG members
... can see the request and add any relevant issues to it.
Glenn: On 3rd October Elika sent a message to Timed Text
[17]Message from Elika
[17] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-timed-text/2018Oct/0000.html
Glenn: She pointed out that CSS Text 3 and 4 WDs have been
published that include
... line-padding and text-group-align.
Nigel: That's great news, I missed that.
... I updated the agenda on the wiki page linked to from the
agenda for this meeting,
... to reflect our most recent discussion. Any other topics,
please add them to the wiki page.
... We have requests from a number of observers - I will send
an email to them telling
... them they can attend and observe.
Meeting close
Nigel: We've completed our agenda for today, meet again next
week.
Glenn: Okay, thanks all for the hard work. It's nice to have a
break after the tough flog.
Nigel: Indeed!
Thierry: Thank you and congratulations to all of you.
Nigel: [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
1. [18]Defer adoption of WCAG 2.1 to a future edition or
version of IMSC.
2. [19]Defer this issue to a future edition unless there is a
strong call from the AC review to make a change, in which
case we may revisit this based on whatever AC review
comment applies.
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 4 October 2018 15:18:26 UTC