Re: Ruby and text emphasis on the same side?

There are essentially three possible combinations here:

   1. base with emphasis, ruby without emphasis
   2. base without emphasis, ruby with emphasis
   3. base with emphasis, ruby with emphasis

I presume the one shown in the CSS example (
https://www.w3.org/TR/css-text-decor-3/images/text-emphasis-ruby.png) is
the first of these combinations. In this case, I agree that the emphasis
mark should be sized according to the base text size and positioned so as
to appear that it applies to the combination of base+ruby as a whole. So,
in this case, I am in agreement with NFLX's Japanese expert.

For the second combination above, the emphasis mark would be sized
according to the ruby text size and positioned so that it appears to be
associated with the ruby and not the base + ruby combination as in the
first combination.

For the third combination, one basically has a combination of the first and
second combinations; however, the presence of an emphasis mark on the ruby
text may require positioning the emphasis mark on the base+ruby combination
(as with combination #1) somewhat further away from the baseline so as to
not overlap the emphasis mark on the ruby.

I also agree that all three of these cases are extremely rare (I don't
believe I have seen any of them in print), but they are possible, so we
should provide guidance on behavior.

G.






On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 2:32 PM Cyril Concolato <cconcolato@netflix.com>
wrote:

> Hi Nigel,
>
> Quoting our Japanese expert:
> "Very very unlikely that a ruby and bouten would be used at the same time
> (I've never seen it before), but ideal display would be per the screenshot,
> where the bouten is at the top and the ruby is closest to the base
> characters."
>
> Cyril
>
> On Thu, Dec 13, 2018 at 1:56 AM Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> This CSS issue: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/3437 and the
>> related discussion at
>> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Feb/0109.html may be
>> of interest here. The query is where to put text emphasis marks applied to
>> ruby base text when ruby is also present and both have the same annotation
>> position, or if in that case the text emphasis should be omitted.
>>
>> Looking at TTML2 I can’t see anything that describes how to handle this
>> case, so there may be an issue to raise against TTML2.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Nigel
>>
>>
>>
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