- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2017 17:16:18 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D4AFDEEF.35915%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes are available in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-tt-minutes.html
We made one resolution:
RESOLUTION: Publish a FPWD of IMSC 1.0.1 based on the current ED.
The review period under our Decision Policy ends on Thursday 9th February.
Minutes in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
26 Jan 2017
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2017/01/26-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Dae, Nigel, tmichel, Andreas, Mike, Pierre, Thierry,
Rohit
Regrets
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This Meeting
2. [5]IMSC
3. [6]TTML
* [7]Summary of Action Items
* [8]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This Meeting
nigel: Any particular points to discuss, or other business not
on the agenda?
group: No AOB.
nigel: Thanks all for attending at the new time - we will stick
with this unless we know in
... advance that we need extra time, in which case we will
begin earlier. Is that going to work for everyone?
group: no objections!
Andreas: That works for me.
IMSC
nigel: On IMSC 1.1, my summary is that we have established that
we are able to publish a
... FPWD of IMSC 1.1 using the same short code as the existing
IMSC spec, ttml-imsc1.
... We have it as a proposal to publish this.
Pierre: We have two pull requests that I'd like to accept
today, and then I can generate a
... FPWD that can be used for publication.
Thierry: Then I will need to talk to the webmaster for
publication on Tuesday at the earliest.
<tmichel> I confirm
Nigel: One small matter of admin for the record:
[9]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1/ has
... been updated in place today, to include a new link to the
latest editor's draft.
... That was because the old link pointed to something in the
github repo that we moved in
... preparation for IMSC 2.
... Philippe tells me that in April there will be a new plan to
allow for a neutral ED link, which
... can be directed behind the scenes to the right place.
[9] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml-imsc1/
Thierry: Only the Rec has been updated - the Web master is not
permitted to update any other
... version. We still have broken links in the old CR and PR.
There is a GitHub hack that we
... can do.
Pierre: I don't think we really need to do. The Rec is the
in-force specification that we need
... to worry about.
Thierry: Okay then let's not put energy into that.
Pierre: Also worth noting, GitHub's gh-pages is now able to
publish from any named branch
... so I set it to publish the ED from the master branch. That
closed issue #187 [10]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/187
[10] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/187
Nigel: Great, thanks for that!
... That means we are serving everything on the master branch
but I don't think that is a problem.
... Let's look at the pull requests then.
-> [11]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/205 Stub to support the
current ED link found in the IMSC1 REC
[11] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/205
scribe: Now we have updated the Rec we don't need this.
Pierre: I just closed that pull request and the associated
issue #204.
-> [12]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/200 Add support for
fillLineGap and optional features
[12] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/200
Pierre: I think everyone was okay with the text. I made a
modification to change the example
... to the nice one that Andreas provided.
Nigel: I just want to check if we really consider it necessary
to have an example with
... multiple font sizes on a single line?
Pierre: It is non obvious how it should work, so since the
feature works in that case we really
... ought to show what the intended effect is, or remove that
possibility.
Andreas: I agree. With the text as it is now we should include
this level of complexity in the example.
... I also would be happy to further constrain it.
Nigel: I'm happy with the feature, I'm just not sure if the
example and/or the test case needs
... this level of complexity.
Pierre: We should because it is allowed.
Andreas: I agree - there are other examples that are more
simple than they could be, and that
... can cause interoperability problems later.
Nigel: I think it would be easier to implement as is than to
specify the constraint that would make it easier to implement!
... I would prefer to leave the text as it is now.
Andreas: This is an interesting discussion, which we should
continue after publication -
... and can do into WD.
Pierre: Something Nigel said last time is we can go back to the
requesters for the feature
... based on the FPWD and check that they are happy with the
level of implementation complexity.
Andreas: Makes sense to me.
Pierre: That's an argument for exposing that complexity in the
FPWD.
Nigel: That's fair.
Pierre: Long term, we really need to get the CSS folks involved
in this.
... Again, with a FPWD it will be easier to go back to the CSS
WG and ask what to do about this.
... Either it is essential for the web and should be in CSS
eventually, or its not.
... I propose that we merge this PR.
Nigel: Any other comments on this before we hit the big green
button?
group: No.
Nigel: Okay Pierre, go for it!
Pierre: Do you want to add a note?
Nigel: Ok, I've done it.
... That's also closed
[13]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/195
... Next pull request:
[13] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/195
-> [14]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/202 Clarify
relationship with current REC
[14] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/202
Pierre: review the last commit at
[15]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/202/commits/d348dc063baf93
95df7bc1947a5dd886926c0c87
[15] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/pull/202/commits/d348dc063baf9395df7bc1947a5dd886926c0c87
Nigel: Ok, any comments on this, requests for changes etc?
group: No comments.
Nigel: Okay, I'll comment on it and merge... Done!
... That's also closed
[16]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/201
[16] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/201
Pierre: There are no issues open.
Nigel: All 12 open issues are labelled IMSC2 milestone.
... Just checking the latest ED...
[17]http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html#
itts-fillLineGap
... The image is not being served.
... The case of the PNG extension differs in the repo vs the
link.
[17] http://w3c.github.io/imsc/imsc1/spec/ttml-ww-profiles.html#itts-fillLineGap
Pierre: I'll rename the file.
Nigel: OK that's fixed now.
... We have a proposal to publish a FPWD based on this ED.
Pierre: I'll create a branch with the SOTD updated to suit and
point the group and Thierry to it.
<tmichel> OK.
RESOLUTION: Publish a FPWD of IMSC 1.0.1 based on the current
ED.
Nigel: Great, thanks everyone.
... Has there been anything on the CLDR Unicode liaison?
Pierre: No.
TTML
Nigel: I want to raise Security and Privacy.
-> [18]https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/224
[18] https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/issues/224
Nigel: You might also find interesting a parallel piece of
work, for reference:
-> [19]https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/323
[19] https://github.com/w3c/webvtt/issues/323
Nigel: I would like to encourage everyone to think about any
security or privacy considerations
... associated with TTML2 that we should declare but that we
have not already captured
... in the ttml2 issue 224 notes.
Pierre: I think that padding on span in TTML2 as currently
specified does not do what we
... want it to do, for ebutts:linePadding. Padding on span does
not accomplish that.
... Note that box-decoration-break: clone; does not work with
nested spans and
... multiple colors.
Nigel: Oh yes, because if you have two adjacent spans with
different background colors then
... you want the padding if they happen to have a line break
between them but not otherwise.
Pierre: I see no value to adding padding on spans; if
linePadding needs to be supported then
... we need to file an issue.
Andreas: The question is if we should go beyond what we have in
EBU-TT-D. It is a similar
... problem with line gap - we define the presentation
semantics without a clear view of
... how to get there. If there is no structural correspondence
in CSS to solve this then we
... may just want to define the presentation semantics, or
possibly it is too complex to fully
... implement it.
Pierre: I would put this in the "work with CSSWG" bucket. I'm
not sure where we will end up
... but being clear in the next working draft that this is a
feature that the group intends to
... make part of TTML2 and is essential and working with CSS
WG, otherwise it will be poorly
... supported. My suspicion is most people won't do it
correctly.
... I'm not questioning the usefulness of line padding, but
just want to point out that there's
... a missing feature in TTML2, which will make it hard for
IMSC2 to be a subset of TTML2.
Nigel: Will you raise an issue?
Pierre: Ok I will.
... Next subtle point is multiRowAlign, which if implemented in
CSS in the same way as
... hinted at in TTML2 does not actually work, because browsers
handle lines with explicit
... br breaks differently from those split by word wrapping.
This is subtle! I think we again
... need to work with CSS WG to show how important this is and
how it can be fixed.
... In the meantime I will file an issue.
Dae: If these are important issues we should try to have a
joint meeting with them.
Pierre: We may be able to request time in their April meeting
in Tokyo.
Nigel: The first step is for me as Chair to reach out and
discover if we can get some agenda
... time with them to discuss these issues.
... So I'll do that. We're out of time for today, so thanks
all! [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
Summary of Resolutions
1. [20]Publish a FPWD of IMSC 1.0.1 based on the current ED.
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 26 January 2017 17:16:48 UTC