- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2016 16:25:58 +0000
- To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D2C6B479.31F5E%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
All, thanks to those who were able to attend today's meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at https://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html
We made one resolution:
RESOLUTION: The group approves publication of Pierre's updated IMSC 1 CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19.
According to our Decision Policy the deadline for objecting to this resolution is 4th February.
This is a minor update on the previous agreement to publish in December a slightly different edit, the change since then being to revert the prohibition of ttp:profile element, i.e. to remove one of the edits relative to CR2. Note also that there is typically 1 week between the request to publish and the actual publication. In this context we will proceed with the request for Director approval as soon as possible.
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
21 Jan 2016
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
andreas, glenn, nigel, plh, simon_pieters(IRC_only)
Regrets
frans, pierre
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]IMSC
4. [7]TTML 1 and 2 editing
* [8]Summary of Action Items
* [9]Summary of Resolutions
__________________________________________________________
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: [Runs through agenda.] Anything specific to discuss
including AOB?
atai: I'd like to raise the use of VTTCue in relation to
HTMLCue.
nigel: We may be somewhat light today but will make progress
where we can.
Action Items
action-453?
<trackbot> action-453 -- Thierry Michel to Schedule between
tmichel and philippe the transition to cr3 with any director
call as needed. -- due 2016-01-21 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[10]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/453
[10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/453
nigel: As far as I'm aware there's been no progress here -
we're waiting on plh and tmichel.
action-383?
<trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration
-- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
glenn: I've done this. I'll add a note re the resolution.
nigel: I see it's for TTML 1.0.
glenn: I've fixed for TTML2, and will fix for TTML 1 and move
to pending review later.
... It was hard to work out what was going on. It turns out
there was a Byte Order Mark before the XML declaration.
... I've got that fixed. None of the other files have that in.
I don't know how it appeared.
action-441?
<trackbot> action-441 -- Andreas Tai to Kick off the analysis
work on the vttcue carrying html idea. -- due 2015-11-05 --
OPEN
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/441
atai: Last week we mentioned HTMLCue again and some members
said they were interested in pushing this forward.
... Action-441 is just to proceed with evaluating the use of
VTTCue as an alternative existing mechanism. However
... nigel and glenn mentioned that they would like a dedicated
HTMLCue proposal. I think we said that we could
... do that in parallel. When we started the HTMLCue activity
it was difficult to get anyone to take the lead, so we
... ended up having a short proposal to test the water. If now
we have more people interested maybe we could
... create another action for it to make parallel progress.
glenn: I guess we need a document proposal. There are a couple
of documents that I created a while back that
<glenn>
[13]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml1-api/Over
view.html
[13] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml1-api/Overview.html
glenn: have never been published. They were as above.
<glenn>
[14]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2-api/Over
view.html
[14] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2-api/Overview.html
glenn: Those links were to two documents that I threw together
in 2013 for a TTMLCue interface level 1 and 2.
... I could leverage those documents or use them as a template
for a draft HTMLCue.
group: [discussion of who might be able to take this work
forward]
... [concludes that nigel should reach out to david from
netflix]
nigel: Okay I'll do that outside the meeting.
IMSC
nigel: plh, please could you update us on publication of CR3?
plh: I've been swamped. I understand the status is that the
objection is gone, so you guys are waiting on
... a Director's decision to update the CR?
nigel: Correct.
plh: I will attempt to get that decision today. I'll let
tmichel know by email.
nigel: We have approval to publish and no objections.
plh: I need an update on the changes that were done for the new
CR.
nigel: I'll ping Pierre.
glenn: I propose that we accept Pierre's new text for CR3 as
circulated on 2016-01-19.
[15]https://rawgit.com/w3c/imsc/imsc-cr3/spec/ttml-ww-profiles-
rendered.html
[15] https://rawgit.com/w3c/imsc/imsc-cr3/spec/ttml-ww-profiles-rendered.html
nigel: I'm happy with that too.
RESOLUTION: The group approves publication of Pierre's updated
IMSC 1 CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19.
nigel: So you need the updated changes and you can proceed with
this Philippe?
plh: That's correct, yes.
... I should be able to get approval tomorrow.
nigel: Thanks, I think that's all we can do right now on IMSC
CR3 publication.
... Should we perhaps discuss issues, even without Pierre
present?
[16]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/130
[16] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/130
glenn: I would like to note a couple of comments.
... 1. I disagree that it is late in the process - we're not
late regarding testing until we're ready for PR, and
... we have at least one CR to publish before then, so I don't
consider us late.
... 2. I think Pierre is speculating that there may be an
issue.
... 3. There's no more risk involved in making this change than
accepting the other fixes that I've proposed.
... We already know that we will have to make a change and
Pierre has agreed to that. In my estimation there's
... no additional risk in making this change.
... Also if there is in fact an implementation that has a
problem correctly processing tests with the recommended
addition,
... then that would be an implementation that should not pass,
which would be a greater risk.
... In other words it would be non-compliant for an
implementation to fail because a recommended feature is
present.
nigel: I think there's also a risk that test result
contributors will not re-run the updated tests with their
implementations.
glenn: In my opinion there should be no expectation that tests
will not change right up until PR.
... Also we should have tests that only test the things we want
them to and, unless we are testing warnings the test content
should by policy generate no warnings.
nigel: In terms of issue #132, I think the tests in the dece
space are not part of the set that need to be passed to exit
CR.
glenn: A couple of tests did not specify a lineHeight which is
not recommended in document instances, in the IMSC spec.
... That was issue #133.
[17]https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/133
[17] https://github.com/w3c/imsc/issues/133
nigel: So the view right now is to update the tests and as
necessary request updated implementation reports.
glenn: I've already volunteered to make some changes to tests.
Also I've just gone back and added "bug" label to #132 and #133
since I consider them to be bugs, as the reporter.
nigel: I think some people think the Editor should triage
issues, set the status etc. Philippe, is there a consistent W3C
approach?
plh: No, it varies across groups depending on the dynamic in
the group. I tend to prefer everyone in the group to
... be empowered to fix things, but I understand not all groups
may work well that way.
nigel: Re issue #136, I made a proposal. Any views on that?
glenn: Sounds reasonable to me.
... I think you're correct that we do need a normative
statement that says you cannot specify both profiles in the
... same document using a ttp:profile element. That would be
inconsistent.
nigel: That's interesting - are you suggesting that the example
I constructed that includes them both should be
... prohibited from being conformant?
glenn: If you had a document that declared both profiles then
if they landed on an IMSC processor that only supports
... one profile then most likely it would be rejected. That may
be an unintended consequence.
nigel: Of course you're still permitted to omit any ttp:profile
elements and be conformant.
glenn: I would suggest a SHOULD recommendation that both
profiles should not be included in the same document.
... It does not have to be a SHALL.
nigel: My only contrived use case is where you want a standard
off the shelf 'empty document' that can be used in
... any circumstance, for example in DASH streaming.
... I'm not sure how useful that is. An empty document could
signal neither profile.
<plh> [18]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/
[18] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/
glenn: I'd have to think about that some more. The intention is
clearly not to allow documents to combine both text
... and image content simultaneously.
TTML 1 and 2 editing
glenn: Can we make a redirect that points from Mercurial to
github?
plh: Yes, I can do that.
glenn: Within the repos there is a spec/ directory within which
there is an html document. We need a stub file in
... both of those locations that points to the new location.
plh: I can do that, maybe not today, but please chase me on
Monday.
<scribe> ACTION: plh Create stub files to redirect from Hg to
github for TTML1 and TTML2 [recorded in
[19]http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[19] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-454 - Create stub files to redirect
from hg to github for ttml1 and ttml2 [on Philippe Le Hégaret -
due 2016-01-28].
atai: I also did this for the mapping document - I took a few
lines from the IMSC directory and replaced the referenced spec.
nigel: Can I ask about date replacement in TTML2? We used the
keywords replacement module in Hg. Have you put in a
replacement for github?
glenn: I've done this using git-filters. I've added them under
.gitfilters. You also need the config.
nigel: It would be good to update the README in the spec
directory.
glenn: Ok I'll do that.
<scribe> ACTION: gadams Update TTML2 spec/README to include
config for keyword replacement. [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-455 - Update ttml2 spec/readme to
include config for keyword replacement. [on Glenn Adams - due
2016-01-28].
nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn now. Thanks all. Meet
same time again next week, 1 hour. [Adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: gadams Update TTML2 spec/README to include config
for keyword replacement. [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: plh Create stub files to redirect from Hg to
github for TTML1 and TTML2 [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action02
[22] http://www.w3.org/2016/01/21-tt-minutes.html#action01
Summary of Resolutions
1. [23]The group approves publication of Pierre's updated IMSC
1 CR3 as circulated on 2016-01-19.
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 21 January 2016 16:26:52 UTC