- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 15:24:50 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D22094B4.27A4E%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
17 Sep 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
Nigel, Frans, Thierry, Mike, Pierre
Regrets
Chair
Nigel
Scribe
Nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This Meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]TPAC 2015
4. [7]IMSC Implementation Report.
5. [8]TTML and WebVTT Mapping Document
6. [9]HTMLCue proposal
7. [10]Unicode Liaison
8. [11]ATSC liaison
9. [12]@codecs registry
* [13]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 17 September 2015
<pal> it looks like I will not have audio today
<scribe> scribe: Nigel
<pal> I can provide brief update re: items 3 and 4
This Meeting
nigel: Thanks Pierre - I make that the IMSC Test Suite and
Implementation Report, and TTML WebVTT mapping.
<pal> yes
nigel: Introduces meeting and topics based on agenda. Any other
business?
Mike: I'm primarily interested in the mapping document, but as
you say the authors aren't present right now.
nigel: I think we should get first reactions, and then take
that forward, regardless of whether the authors are here or
not.
Action Items
nigel: The only one that we might be able to look at right now
is Pierre's. Pierre, is there any update on Action-420, re
Issue-406?
<pal> No update. I have yet to contact Glenn.
TPAC 2015
nigel: Firstly, any difficulties in registering, or any
queries?
group: None.
nigel: I want to highlight that we will cover the charter
renewal at TPAC. The current charter:
[14]http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
[14] http://www.w3.org/2014/03/timed-text-charter.html
nigel: runs out on March 30 2016, so we will probably be
wanting to renew it.
... We need to consider our scope. Note also that the Timed
Media Working Group is being
... chartered right now. Thierry, what's the current status of
that?
tmichel: I'm told that WebVTT work was removed from the
potential scope of TMWG following
... a conversation between nigel and plh. That's about all I
know about the interaction between
... the two groups. TMWG will work more on APIs than we do. I
don't have a link to the
... updated charter yet.
nigel: Okay, thanks. I'm guessing that we want something on
TTML2 and IMSC 2 and possibly
... something on live subtitles, as well as WebVTT.
tmichel: I had a discussion with plh on the TTWG working on
IMSC 2. It is not clearly marked
... as a deliverable right now but because there's no
versioning in the charter then plh confirmed
... to me that we can work on IMSC 2 under the current charter.
I just wanted to mention that
... because I raised a query on it a few weeks ago.
nigel: Thanks for that.
... Anything else for TPAC agenda to mention?
tmichel: Just some admin - for people planning to come to TPAC
you should register and book
... your hotels as soon as possible because I'm told that the
pre-booked hotel rooms are filling
... up. There are other hotels of course. I'm aware of people
having issues paying with credit
... cards for this event. If you have those issues contact the
meeting planner or me and I'll help
... you to make your reservation.
nigel: Thanks Thierry.
IMSC Implementation Report.
tmichel: Just to say that the implementation report WBS
questionnaire that I prepared and that
<pal> I have received positive feedback from implementers at
IBC
tmichel: we sent to the implementors has had no responses yet.
... When we talked about this last, in June/July we said we'd
remind potential implementors
... in September. I know that Pierre reported he has good
feedback from implementors, so
... should we send them something? Should we do it differently?
If Pierre could report a bit more
... on the status of these implementors and the coverage for
example?
<pal> Thanks Nigel
<pal> I received positive feedback at IBC, which I hope to turn
into actual responses to the questionaire
<pal> these implementers are making their way back from IBC and
I plan to ping them on Monday
<pal> ....so hopefully more concrete recommendation by next
meeting
nigel: Shall we leave it with you Pierre until you've had a
response?
tmichel: I wanted to add two things. Nigel, you mentioned that
you've seen a lot of TTML
... implementations at IBC. I think it would be reasonable and
a good idea to list those
... implementations somewhere on our page. We could reuse that
for example when we will
... go to CR for TTML2, to help us to have a list of
implementors that we're aware of.
... Secondly, about IMSC, I know that Glenn is working on an
implementation, and maybe we
... could discuss that with him to find out when he plans to
release something and what it would
... cover regarding our test suite.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Check with TTML player manufacturers if
they're happy to be listed on our site. [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-421 - Check with ttml player
manufacturers if they're happy to be listed on our site. [on
Nigel Megitt - due 2015-09-24].
pal: I'll check back with Glenn
nigel: So the conclusion is we won't decide until next week
when we'll know more from Pierre.
... Since we don't know if there are any concerns from
implementors about responding we can't
... try to address any such concerns yet.
<pal> not from me
TTML and WebVTT Mapping Document
[16]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-webvtt-mappin
g/mappingbetweenTTMLandWebVTTW3C.html
[16] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml-webvtt-mapping/mappingbetweenTTMLandWebVTTW3C.html
nigel: Any first reactions to this work?
... My first reaction to this is very positive. I think there's
some detail work to do, for example
... around the difference in document ordering vs time ordering
constraints between the two
... formats that means that there's some extra complexity that
may not be fully captured yet.
... There are probably other comments too, but at least we have
a document to hang them on.
mike: I think this is really good. We should think on a
philosophical and logistical level about
... the history. I'm not sure about EBU-TT. For SDP-US and
IMSC1 they both started as
... authoring constraints. You write down details, and then for
interoperability you write it
... down clearly and pretty soon you have a profile. I think
that as this work matures we might
... want to keep in the back of our mind that we might want to
create a TTML profile to reflect
... this work. That's something to keep in mind.
nigel: My sense is that the authors did have this in mind.
Section 2.1 looks almost exactly
... like a TTML profile.
... We'll certainly cover this at TPAC so I'd strongly
encourage anyone with thoughts on this
... to make the authors aware well before we get to Japan so
they can think about them.
mike: Shall I file an issue re the use of "T2" being confusable
with TTML2?
nigel: Sure, go ahead. There's a product for this document in
the Tracker.
tmichel: I have a question. I was really impressed by the work
done in this mapping. The Editors
... have done a really big piece of work. I wanted to speak
about the next steps. We currently
... have an Editor's draft. When do we plan to publish
something on /TR that would allow us
... to get more feedback and track the responses on the Timed
Text mailing list?
nigel: Why does it need to be on /TR for that to happen?
tmichel: It doesn't, but it would give it more visibility. It's
not easy to find that document.
... I put a link in the wiki from our dashboard, and there was
an announcement on the public
... mailing list, but maybe in a month or two when it is more
polished we may want to put it on /TR, maybe after TPAC?
nigel: If we publish on /TR as a Note can we keep updating it?
tmichel: We can either just publish and update, or we can
publish a 1st Working Draft and then
... updates later. It doesn't mean that it's 'final'. Some
groups feel that a Note is something
... more finalised. It's up to the group.
pal: Do we need to make that decision today or can we review it
and then decide what to do?
<pal> +1
nigel: My proposal would be to assess this following TPAC when
we know more the magnitude of the work to be done.
tmichel: +1
<tmichel> +1
nigel: That's agreed then I think!
tmichel: Just one small thing, which I think I mentioned to
Courtney already. I think we should
... explicitly describe how to send the feedback. Either on
tracker to start with or in the SOTD.
nigel: +1
<scribe> ACTION: courtney Update the Mapping document Status of
this document to include feedback mechanism. [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-422 - Update the mapping document
status of this document to include feedback mechanism. [on
Courtney Kennedy - due 2015-09-24].
nigel: I see that the document has a CC A3 license. Is that a
respec requirement? Is it normal?
tmichel: I was not expecting that statement.
nigel: Do we have a W3C policy on licenses for notes?
tmichel: I'll check and come back on that.
<scribe> ACTION: tmichel Check the license on the TTML to
WebVTT mapping document [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action03]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-423 - Check the license on the ttml
to webvtt mapping document [on Thierry Michel - due
2015-09-24].
HTMLCue proposal
Action-416?
<trackbot> Action-416 -- Nigel Megitt to Edit proposal and send
to htmlcue proposal reviewers as listed by tmichel, following
action-415 -- due 2015-08-27 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/416
[19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/416
close action-416
<trackbot> Closed action-416.
nigel: A discussion has started on the WHATWG list. The initial
feedback is we need to add more
... detail and that without it we may (inadvertantly?) have
created a bunch of possible usage
... scenarios that we didn't intend, like adding timed scripts
to elements.
[20]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/
2015Sep/0032.html
[20] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-whatwg-archive/2015Sep/0032.html
nigel: It's worth having a look at the responses. My current
thought is that we may end up
... going down a path of constraining the content of the
HTMLCue so it begins to look only
... like a small subset of HTML, to avoid dealing with those
complexities.
... So I think we need to iterate over this again and think it
through some more.
Unicode Liaison
nigel: Just to note that there's a supporting liaison on the
ticket we raised, from DVB, who have
... a working group who would like to be able to reference the
same output of CLDR as us.
[21]http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915
[21] http://unicode.org/cldr/trac/ticket/8915
pal: I've had no responses other than it seems like someone is
looking at it, which is very encouraging.
Mike: I've forwarded the details of this to DECE and they were
supportive of adding DECE support too.
... I haven't made that happen yet.
ATSC liaison
action-418?
<trackbot> action-418 -- Nigel Megitt to Send response back to
atsc as per
[22]https://lists.w3.org/archives/member/member-tt/2015aug/0019
.html -- due 2015-09-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
[22] https://lists.w3.org/archives/member/member-tt/2015aug/0019.html
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/418
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/418
Mike: It's received, so no more action needed on that.
close action-418
<trackbot> Closed action-418.
@codecs registry
nigel: Is there anything more to do on this?
mike: I made some changes since we last looked, so it would be
good if people could review it,
... particularly the changes for EBU standards after I
discussed it with Andreas.
nigel: I think this is one for Frans and I to check.
Frans: yes.
Mike: I have a process question about whether we need to do
something in TTML2 for this,
... and if it falls under the category of group consensus.
nigel: Please could you drop me a line with the question
exactly?
mike: I'll follow up offline.
nigel: We're out of time so thanks everyone. [Adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: courtney Update the Mapping document Status of
this document to include feedback mechanism. [recorded in
[24]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action02]
[NEW] ACTION: nigel Check with TTML player manufacturers if
they're happy to be listed on our site. [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: tmichel Check the license on the TTML to WebVTT
mapping document [recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2015/09/17-tt-minutes.html#action03]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 17 September 2015 15:25:30 UTC