- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 28 May 2015 14:44:57 +0000
- To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D18CE770.20C84%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's meeting. Minutes in HTML format are at: http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
28 May 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/05/28-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
courtney, nigel, pal, glenn, Andreas
Regrets
frans
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Issues
4. [7]IMSC 1 CR2
5. [8]TTML2 Editorial Actions
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 28 May 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: It's been a quiet couple of weeks. I'd like to discuss
briefly the TTML2 Editorial Actions. AOB?
group: No AOB.
Action Items
glenn: I've been doing a bit of work on Action-383 but have
found no satisfactory conclusion to it yet.
action-383?
<trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration
-- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[10]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
[10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
glenn: I'm still working on that one.
action-387?
<trackbot> action-387 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Collate list
of potential implementors of imsc 1. -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387
[11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387
pal: This is in progress. It's somewhat related to the plan for
W3C to reach out to the implementors.
nigel: I think tmichel is back next week.
pal: Ok, I'll try to get this done and coordinate with tmichel.
I want to avoid a lull after raising excitement levels with
implementors.
action-396?
<trackbot> action-396 -- David Singer to Produce evidence of
request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive -- due
2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
courtney: dsinger sent some emails this week to try to wrap
this up - he's working on it.
Issues
glenn: I expect to file some new issues on TTML2 on the
potential need for some additional features
... related to handling corner cases with Ruby alignment. I
don't have the data to create those yet.
... Just to note the area that I'm looking at. There's a
probable need for adding some additional support
... for baseline alignment. Things get tricky with Ruby and
textEmphasis handling baseline alignment
... and generating even spacing for lineHeights whether there's
Ruby present or not. That's the area
... I'm referring to when I say we might need additional
features. Both CSS and XSL-FO have similar
... definitions of baseline properties that we can draw on for
doing this.
... The specific properties are three: "dominant" baseline
which is used to express the dominant baseline
... on the parent line area or on a child inline area. The next
one is "alignment" baseline which is used to
... express which baseline on the parent is to be used to align
the child. The third is baseline shift or
... baseline offset which is an additional movement of the
baseline related to the other two.
... Another thing I've been working on which is interesting is
ipd and bpd on a span. It turns out I've
... found a need for supporting struts, which are spans that
have zero size in ipd or bpd. Right now we
... effectively support them but don't say anything about them.
Simply by supporting ipd and bpd on
... span we support the semantics for struts but we don't talk
about them anywhere. It turns out they
... will probably be very useful for managing height of lines
in horizontal writing modes and width in
... vertical writing modes.
nigel: It sounds like a strut and a br are very similar things.
glenn: Not to me - br just inserts a hard line break. Does a br
introduce any vertical space in a horizontal
... writing mode? It does based on lineHeight, if it follows a
previous br. The thing is that to alter the
... height of a line without having any content in it, there's
no way to do that today without using a strut.
... You could alter all the lines on a p by changing the
lineHeight property but you can't do it on a single
... line.
... We might also need to add to the condition system some new
layout function expressions that
... conditionalise application of styles based on layout states
for example line-first, line-odd, line-even,
... ruby-before, ruby-after etc. All these things have been
coming out of work I've been doing with edge
... cases on ruby recently.
nigel: I'm not aware of any other work on issues.
IMSC 1 CR2
pal: I think the next step is to work with thierry and others
to get input from non-W3C members on this.
nigel: Is there anything specifically that you think would help
from W3C?
pal: As we discussed in Las Vegas, this is a W3C spec but many
of the implementors are not W3 members.
... They may be a little concerned about sharing implementation
results with W3C, putting myself in their shoes.
... How will the results be used, why am I doing it, etc are
not immediately obvious. Since the process
... is contingent on those results we might be in a catch-22.
My recollection of the conclusion from the
... discussion in Vegas is it might make sense for W3C to reach
out to those implementors and explain
... why their input is valuable and how it would be used.
nigel: I'm fine with that - if there are implementors who have
concerns then we should be understanding
... those concerns and trying to address them.
andreas: Do we have the idea of a webinar or something similar
to explain IMSC to get more attention and explain more?
pal: I think somehow tmichel or maybe plh implied that they had
ideas on what to do.
andreas: I think many people are interested in that but maybe
wouldn't join a bigger conference.
... Half an hour or an hour to explain what's going on would be
good. Mike Dolan once did this for
... SMPTE-TT which was successful. If you can record it and
make it available later then it would be very helpful.
pal: +1 Let me take a note of that for when I follow up with
thierry.
... At least it should be a possibility we cover.
TTML2 Editorial Actions
nigel: Has anyone looked at the ednotes spreadsheet and decided
to volunteer?
pal: I've started looking at my one and have a question about
it.
nigel: Me too for one of mine.
pal: I generated a sample image for §10.2.10 disparity and
glenn, are you wedded to the example TTML?
... For instance the value of the disparity and the fact that
there's a single image?
glenn: Sure, go ahead and change the example or mock-up to what
you think is appropriate.
... You should have that flexibility.
pal: Thanks. Specifically, a disparity of 0.7% is too small to
see, and needs to be increased, and also
... I'm thinking to have 2 regions, one with zero disparity and
the other with disparity so that you can
... easily see the difference between the two renderings.
glenn: Thank you.
nigel: My one was on system model, §1.1 Figure 1. We know we
want to change DFXP -> TTML. But
... there are other things we might want to bring in.
... The first question is should profiles be in the system
model?
glenn: Interesting idea. The system model right now focuses on
data flow and types of data. I would
... almost suggest a different diagram. If you mix profiles
then it might get too busy. I would suggest
... experimenting and seeing what makes sense.
nigel: My next question is does it make sense to include
transformation processors and presentation
... processors in the system model, possibly relating the
content and processor profiles in there.
glenn: I would say yes, and also including ISG generation as an
option in the flow for transcoding.
... We effectively have that informally in TTML1, though
without a concrete representation. From a reader's
... perspective, having an illustration somewhere that shows
something about that process visually
... would be useful. You could certainly add that into the
system model.
nigel: I'm also wondering if we should explicitly name the flow
from ISG into HTML/CSS to help folk
... understand how TTML presentation fits into the web context.
glenn: Yes, exactly.
nigel: Okay well I'll attempt to do this and make it available
for review.
... Going back to the spreadsheet, has anyone had a hard time
accessing it?
group: No (silently!)
nigel: Looking at the agenda, I think there's no more to cover
this week, so we'll draw to a close.
... Just to remind everyone I'm still looking for a chair for
18th and 25th June.
pal: I'm happy to be available on standby for that.
nigel: Thank you very much pierre!
... Thanks everyone, meeting same time next week. [adjourns
meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 28 May 2015 14:45:29 UTC