W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > June 2015

Re: [webvtt] Rename "line position" to "line offset". (#194)

From: David Singer <singer@apple.com>
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2015 14:19:58 -0700
Cc: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>, W3C Public TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-id: <E8F22681-7F0B-4A83-B594-EAA14F69470B@apple.com>
To: Silvia Pfieffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com>

> On Jun 9, 2015, at 13:09 , Silvia Pfeiffer <silviapfeiffer1@gmail.com> wrote:
> [not sure why this thread suddenly included the TTWG - it was merely
> on the github bug before for WebVTT]

I was hoping to raise its visibility, in that I knew that my idea (below, critiqued) was weak, but maybe someone else had a better idea…

> I don't think those concepts are what we're actually dealing with.
> Leading is the whitespace between lines
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leading),

well, or the whitespace before a paragraph, which is closer this meaning.  It has at least the advantage of being in the block progression dimension.

> not the distance from the top
> of the page (which is what our "line" setting provides). Indent may
> have worked, but we're already using "position”.

yup.  major name changes might be confusing…

> Silvia.
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2015 at 4:39 AM, David Singer <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>> I wonder whether we should use words from the word processing/typesetting world, where the offset in character progression direction is called indent, and the offset in the block progression direction is leading?
>>> On Jun 8, 2015, at 8:53 , nigelmegitt <notifications@github.com> wrote:
>>> I don't think this change helps much, if at all. Two main concerns:
>>>      • the suggestion that 'offset' means something perpendicular to 'position' is too subtle and doesn't come from any normal usage of English.
>>>      • the term 'offset' normally refers to a relative change in position, i.e. you need an absolute baseline position relative to which you're adding or subtracting something. In this case there is no absolute position. Sentences like "The cue box's top side ... is aligned at the line offset" are very confusing and hard to read because that's a direct misuse of "offset" in this context.
>>> It also doesn't resolve the basic difficulty: sentences like "The text position defines the offset of the cue box..." demonstrate - are the two concepts of position and offset actually interchangeable, or orthogonal?
>>> I've just noticed that offset is also used to describe times elsewhere in the document.
>>> For me, the original confusion came from the terms "text" and "line", and this edit doesn't address that. I think an alternative edit that would have worked here would have been to use longer more expressive names. The points in decreasing order of scope in my mind are:
>>>      • It's a cue setting
>>>      • It's expressed in either the inline or the block direction
>>>      • It's a position
>>> So you'd end up with something like "WebVTT Cue Inline Position" and "WebVTT Cue Block Position". I would critique this though, as being somewhat unwieldy. At least it makes clear that to understand the position you have to know the writing direction though, which is the key point.
>>> —
>>> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.
>> David Singer
>> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.

David Singer
Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
Received on Tuesday, 9 June 2015 21:20:29 UTC

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