- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2015 15:16:33 +0000
- To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D19626F6.21412%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/06/04-tt-minutes.html
Minutes in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
04 Jun 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/06/04-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
glenn, tmichel, nigel, Frans, pal
Regrets
andreas
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Issues
4. [7]IMSC CR2
5. [8]IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report
6. [9]WebVTT review feedback
7. [10]TTML2 editorial actions
8. [11]AOB
* [12]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 04 June 2015
<glenn> i'm going to miss telling zakim what to do ;(
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: Goes through agenda, AOB?
group: no AOB.
Action Items
nigel: There are 4 TTML action items open - no progress so far
on those. Some of the other actions are below.
glenn: If someone feels like any of those action items need to
be prioritised then let me know.
Issues
issue-265?
<trackbot> issue-265 -- Some bad tests -- open
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/265
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/265
nigel: I've added another test that seems to be wrong, where
the child of a seq container is asserted to
... have zero duration whereas the TTML spec says it should be
indefinite.
issue-341?
<trackbot> issue-341 -- ambiguous definition for determination
of descendant region identifier -- open
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/341
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/341
nigel: I added a note to this.
glenn: I've decided since I raised the issue that it's not
adequate and we need something that works
... a little differently, so that the region of an element that
has no ancestor with a region but some children
... that do then the region of the element is effectively
multi-valent, in the sense that when evaluating
... the region of the descendants of that element you walk up
the tree and set the region of the highest
... level of the tree to that region, and do the same again for
other descendants. So that the region of
... the ancestors that did not specify a region switch as you
walk up the tree.
nigel: Makes sense to me - I think that's the same as my
proposal, if I have understood correctly.
... Glenn, if you could add a description of what you're
thinking to issue-341 that would be really useful.
<glenn> ACTION: glenn to add note to Issue 341 to reflect his
current thinking [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2015/06/04-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-404 - Add note to issue 341 to
reflect his current thinking [on Glenn Adams - due 2015-06-11].
IMSC CR2
nigel: We received some detailed feedback from timeless this
week.
glenn: He's been very active in the HTML WG too.
pal: I've briefly looked at it - it's mostly editorial; the
question is how to document those.
nigel: I don't think we have to do formal dispositions so I
suggest we just add issues in the tracker for
... each of the points raised.
pal: Okay I'm happy to do that.
tmichel: Yes, I can confirm that would be sufficient. Reading
the SOTD I think we should have added that
... we expect comments only on the new stuff since the new CR.
nigel: I think there were only removals not additions. Is that
right?
pal: I can check. Regardless, comments are always welcome; the
group can choose what to do about them.
... First I'll propose some resolutions.
nigel: Perfect. I think there are a mix on the range from typo
to substantive questions that need answering.
IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report
pal: From last time, I need to work with tmichel now that he
has returned.
tmichel: So have I understood right that you want me to reach
out and you can provide a list?
pal: That's right, and there's a suggestion of creating a
webinar.
tmichel: Yes, right.
pal: There's a question of if W3C does that, if it makes sense,
etc.?
tmichel: I have never done webinars for a CR phase but I will
investigate if it's been done and how to proceed.
... But I can work with you pal to start preparing a list.
pal: Is there a timeframe for sending out an email?
tmichel: I would say the sooner the better unless there's a
reason to delay.
glenn: I just want to mention that Skynav has been asked by a
client to do an IMSC addition to the TTML
... Verifier tool and most likely will also add support to it
in the TT Presentation Engine to be able to
... present IMSC documents, so we will probably be able to sign
up as one of the implementors.
pal: Great, you're added to the list!
glenn: Schedule will probably be Q3 or Q4 2015.
action-388?
<trackbot> action-388 -- Thierry Michel to Start preparing the
imsc 1 implementation report form. -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/388
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/388
tmichel: No real progress other than thinking about it. I think
I'll proceed with a WBS as the easier way
... to manage it. I was planning to start a first WBS with a
few test cases, and then if we agree on the
... general format then I could go through the whole list. I
could propose something this week before
... the next meeting.
WebVTT review feedback
action-395?
<trackbot> action-395 -- Thierry Michel to Chase the
accessibility wg for a date for getting webvtt feedback -- due
2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/395
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/395
tmichel: Nothing to report - I have not received anything from
a11y while I was away. I'll ping them again.
action-396?
<trackbot> action-396 -- David Singer to Produce evidence of
request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive -- due
2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[18]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
[18] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
nigel: dsinger has created a page to document the review at
[19]https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review
... I don't think we can discuss this now, but just wanted to
note for the minutes that it's there.
[19] https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebVTT_Wide_Review
TTML2 editorial actions
nigel: One of these has been done! I created a diagram and
updated the text, and pushed it to Hg,
... then Glenn regenerated the ED based on it, so now you can
see it at
[20]https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttm
l2.html#model
[20] https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml2/spec/ttml2.html#model
glenn: I had done an update on Hg yesterday and must have
pulled it in then. Looking quickly at it,
... the left box looks a bit non-symmetrical at the bottom - a
visual comment only. It looks a good
... start otherwise.
nigel: As a process, that worked well for me, as the change got
incorporated. Is there anything we
... should do differently next time?
glenn: That's okay. It's useful to have an email notifying of
the changes.
nigel: Plus you did some work on the features.
glenn: I started to add TTML2 features to Appendix E. I
slightly modified the animation feature. I had
... a conversation with a TTML2 user about the issue of
potential changes to the semantics of existing
... feature designators defined in TTML1. On reflection it is
inadvisable to make semantic changes to
... designators unless there's a mistake or a blatant error in
TTML1. We shouldn't for example extend
... or restrict the semantics of a feature already defined in
TTML1, rather we should introduce a new
... designator reflecting the extended/restricted form. For
animation, for example I had edited it in
... TTML2 to include the animate element, but in conclusion
I've reverted that animation designator and
... introduced animation-2 as a new designator defining the
extension to the animation element. If
... I made any other changes I'll revert them and add a -2
flavour for TTML2.
... The other thing I've started doing is adding TTML2
vocabulary, ruby, ruby-*, textEmphasis etc.
... For the first time I'm specifying whether a feature is a
restriction or an extension to another feature
... now that we have vocabulary to express that. It was a
useful experiment to add a few in, and in the
... case of textEmphasis I defined two subset features,
-no-color and no-quoted-string.
... I also defined a -minimal designator that is the
intersection of no-color and no-quoted-string subset
... designators. That's the first time I've defined an
intersection; I suspect I'll be doing that for other
... complex features too, and it's something we may want to
exploit elsewhere, including for TTML1
... features.
... I'll be adding some new features over the next few days.
nigel: Great!
glenn: I'd like to confirm with pal whether it would be useful
or necessary to add feature designators
... to support IMSC semantics. We might want to codify
restrictions defined in IMSC to allow us more
... easily to support IMSC 2.
pal: Sure, let me add that to my to-do list.
glenn: For IMSC 2 rather than IMSC 1, imagining you back-port
restrictions from IMSC 1 into IMSC 2.
pal: Got it!
nigel: At some point we'll also want to generate tests for
those features.
AOB
nigel: First up, TPAC 2015 schedule.
[21]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015May/0030
.html
[21] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015May/0030.html
nigel: We've had confirmation that we'll meet on Thursday and
Friday. Can I just check that this won't
... cause any difficulties?
pal: Not for me
glenn: Fine for me
nigel: The next point is the request re pruning of content
elements
... In ยง9.3.2 of TTML1:
[22]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/#semantics-region-layout-step-1
... The question is, if a div references one region and one of
its descendant p elements another, is everything pruned, and if
so,
... is that what we want?
[22] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml1/#semantics-region-layout-step-1
glenn: Obviously that's not what we want. Similar to my
comments before about walking up the tree,
... we shouldn't be pruning that content. I've given that some
thought and implemented something,
... so I'll deal with it at the same time as the other issue we
talked about. There's no question in my
... mind about what is desired. The language will need to be
fixed.
nigel: I don't think we should change the algorithm in TTML1,
but we should at least add a 'watch out for this' note.
glenn: We can change what we want if there's a mistake. I think
there's a convincing case that the
... language that went into TTML1 was not intended and what was
written was an error. So I don't think
... there's any problem with that. For completeness we would
need to move to a future 3rd edition.
nigel: Okay, thanks, let's look at the proposed changes when
they're available.
... Next AOB is /TR Style Sheets
... If the Editors could respond to my email listing the survey
questions then I will fill in the WBS
... with our collected answers.
... I'll prompt Silvia separately.
<inserted> pal: My only feedback to the survey is IMSC 1 uses
respec.js so that's pretty much it. There should be no impact
on IMSC 1 if respec.js is updated with new templates.
nigel: The last item is progress on the HTMLCue proposal.
... Andreas responded by email that he has no update and will
push it more in the next 2 weeks.
... The only other thing to note is that next week we will use
Webex for audio instead of Zakim,
... and still use IRC in the same way as now.
tmichel: One thing is that to build the Present list into the
minutes there's no connection between
... Webex and the agent therefore a best practice is to write
present+ [name] on IRC when joining the
... call, to allow the agent to build the Present list.
nigel: Oh, I've been doing that manually as scribe for ages,
but happy for anyone else to do it.
tmichel: If you call through a telephone or a computer you need
to install a new module, and through
... the UI you can see the participants who have joined through
Webex. If you just dial in then you get a
... meaningless name label, which isn't useful for the minutes.
And it's impossible to paste the list into
... IRC. But at least you can mute/unmute directly on the tool
and others can see your mute state.
nigel: In that case, let's sign off with a fond farewell to
zakim. Meet again same time next week. [adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: glenn to add note to Issue 341 to reflect his
current thinking [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2015/06/04-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 4 June 2015 15:17:06 UTC