- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 2 Jul 2015 15:16:05 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D1BB141B.2267C%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's TTWG meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html
In text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
02 Jul 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
nigel, pal, atai2, tmichel
Regrets
glenn, Frans
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]Issues
4. [7]TPAC 2015
5. [8]IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report
6. [9]WebVTT review feedback
7. [10]AOB
* [11]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: pal has asked me for an agenda item on reaching to
unicode, so we'll add that.
... Any other Other Business?
group: no
Action Items
action-406?
<trackbot> action-406 -- Andreas Tai to Follow on creating a
strawman re: html cue extension specification -- due 2015-06-25
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406
atai2: I've had an informal discussion with Opera and some
others here as a result. We discussed last
... time who will take the lead on creating a strawman proposal
to create an HTMLCue extension to
... take to the HTML WG. One proposal is Opera could do it
because they have already done some
... work on it. They are happy to help out based on their
existing knowledge and internal implementation
... but they cannot lead it over the next 6 months. I talked to
Giuseppe from Opera and he mentioned
... it would be possibly better to summarise the idea briefly
and see how much initial agreement
... there is from people working on the issue in this group
(HTML). I think that would be a good idea,
... to talk to the browser community about HTMLCue and test the
response. Possibly a complete
... draft is not necessary at this point because it's more a
question if the browser vendors are willing
... to accept this kind of extension. Then after that it would
be easier to decide who would take the
... lead on that. The bigger problem is to convince the
relevant groups to implement/support this as
... an HTML extension.
nigel: That sounds like a reasonable approach. Is the first
strawman essentially an abstract? Who can do that?
atai2: I can work on that and circulate it. We should mention
also why it is useful to have a generic
... approach that would allow other formats to be integrated in
the HTML browser environment.
... It's both to show the business case and the technical idea
behind it.
nigel: Thanks for volunteering. When would be a good date for
the action?
atai2: Possibly 16th July
nigel: I've updated the action.
action-407?
<trackbot> action-407 -- Nigel Megitt to Determine summer
schedule -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/407
[13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/407
nigel: Have I understood this correctly that it's about
scheduling meetings?
tmichel: Yes, that's it.
nigel: I've had a couple of responses. There's one absence on
August 20th but apart from that I've
... had no reason to cancel any meetings. Was there any other
concern that lead to this?
tmichel: No, I raised it because some groups schedule a summer
break. We can continue to schedule
... meetings and if it looks like there won't be enough people
present then cancel a couple of days
... beforehand.
nigel: That works for me. I'll leave the action open so people
can send me their non-availability.
... Otherwise we'll continue with weekly meetings as normal.
Action-408?
<trackbot> Action-408 -- Thierry Michel to Coordinate with
nigel re: tpac wiki page -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/408
[14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/408
nigel: What's behind this one?
tmichel: We currently have a wiki page:
<tmichel> [15]https://www.w3.org/Team/wiki/TPAC/2015
[15] https://www.w3.org/Team/wiki/TPAC/2015
nigel: I can't access that one - is there a TTWG one rather
than a Team page?
tmichel: I'll create a page so people from TTWG can fill in
their names, when they're coming etc.
Action-408: [meeting 2015-07-02] tmichel to create a TTWG
accessible wiki page for TPAC 2015 logistics etc
<trackbot> Notes added to Action-408 Coordinate with nigel re:
tpac wiki page.
nigel: Great, you could use the 2014 TPAC page as a basis if
you want.
tmichel: Yes, I won't start from scratch!
Issues
issue-396?
<trackbot> issue-396 -- Invalid codepoints (el) -- raised
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/396
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/396
issue-397?
<trackbot> issue-397 -- Sync recommended codepoints with CFF-TT
-- raised
<trackbot>
[17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/397
[17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/397
pal: Issue-396 is pretty straightforward: In the character set
associated with Greek there's a range,
... and there are 2 code points that are associated with no
Unicode characters. The correction is to
... remove those invalid Unicode code points from that range.
... I suspect someone just copied the range not realising that
there are two invalid code points in there.
reopen issue-396
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-396.
pal: Issue-397 - I'm not sure it demands immediate action.
Based on the text in IMSC 1 that combines
... the CLDR main and punctuation character sets and the named
codes has prompted DECE to update
... their spec to do the same thing. But that may be overtaken
by events if we choose to approach
... Unicode and recommend that they adopt character sets
specifically used in captioning. So I would
... hold off making any changes here until we've resolved what
to do with Unicode.
nigel: Now seems like a good time to come to that point. You
have a proposal?
pal: Yes. We've mentioned a couple of times briefly this idea
and I thought it would be good to make
... it concrete. Annex B of IMSC 1 contains recommended
character sets for a given language. The idea
... is that not all clients will implement all Unicode code
points. After much discussion where we
... ended up is combining the characters recommended by DECE,
found by studying existing content,
... with the CLDR character sets published by Unicode, which
are those characters in common use for
... each language. Right now Annex B is this combination of
CFF-TT and CLDR. The idea is to take this
... and submit to Unicode a proposal to add to CLDR character
sets specifically for subtitling and captioning
... applications per language per locale. The reason is that
characters used for captioning and subtitling
... are not necessarily those in common use. For example the
musical note is commonly used in
... subtitling and captioning, as are Latin characters that
wouldn't normally be used. So there would
... be a lot of benefit to adding subtitling and captioning
character sets to CLDR, which would have a
... wider benefit beyond TTWG. I've generated the sets of
characters based on Annex B and
... provided the analysis in an email I sent earlier. The next
step would be to approach Unicode and
... have that discussion.
<pal>
[18]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062
.html
[18] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html
pal: If you go to the third link in that email
[19]http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm
... Those sets of characters were generated by applying the
algorithm in Annex B of IMSC 1. That's
... what you end up with for each of the specified locales in
IMSC1.
... To the best of my knowledge these are the characters in
common use. It'd be good for the folks
... at Unicode to take this over and maintain it.
... In fact I've had some conversation before with Unicode.
Their feedback was neither ecstatic
... nor negative. They asked for more details, which I think
the table provides. Now IMSC 1 is at a
... different level of maturity I think it will give them more
confidence in starting with this. The person
... I had been recommended to talk to by plh was ... I'll look
up the correct name.
[19] http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm
atai2: Yes, that sounds like a good approach and a reasonable
activity. I'm wondering if this should
... be a liaison from TTWG to Unicode to collaborate on such a
document or table or list. As you said
... the person you talked to Pierre was not overly
enthusiastic. But if there's a specific liaison letter
... explaining the use case and offering to collaborate with
our group that would be better.
pal: Exactly, my suggestion would be to have a liaison. Mark
Davis was the person I talked to.
... I'm not sure exactly how the liaison would work with
Unicode, but I think he would be the right
... point of contact. The email I sent to the reflector
contains the proposed text, if you want to have
... a look.
<tmichel> go ahead Nigel send it to Richrd.
nigel: Our liaison with Unicode is via Richard Ishida, so I'll
check in with him whether this is a good
... idea and then take it from there.
pal: I'm pretty sure Richard recommended Mark, so he may
already be across this, since Shenzhen.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Discuss liaison with Unicode with
Richard Ishida [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-409 - Discuss liaison with unicode
with richard ishida [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-07-09].
Action-409:
[21]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062
.html
[21] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html
<trackbot> Notes added to Action-409 Discuss liaison with
unicode with richard ishida.
nigel: In the meantime if everyone could review the proposed
text that would be great.
reopen issue-397
<trackbot> Re-opened issue-397.
issue-397: [meeting 2015-07-02] Pending potential liaison with
Unicode.
<trackbot> Notes added to issue-397 Sync recommended codepoints
with CFF-TT.
TPAC 2015
nigel: As mentioned before, Thierry is going to create a wiki
page for us for this. Also,
... registration is now open - see
[22]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/ and follow the links.
... I recommend people look sooner rather than later as the
accommodation situation is somewhat
... more complex this year than it sometimes is.
... We'll need to open up for agenda items too - no immediate
urgency on that.
[22] http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/
IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report
nigel: We've issued a Call for Implementation, right?
pal: Yes
tmichel: Yes. Pierre sent me last week a first set of
implementors so I've sent an email to them,
... calling for implementation. We had agreed on this email
with Pierre and Nigel added a few things.
... It links to the WBS questionnaire that asks the implementor
to respond. I will be collecting these
... answers to build the Implementation Report. This will be
the source. Also I will merge any emails
... sent to me with text answers. I plan to do the final merge
in September once we have enough
... answers. Of course if we have 10 answers in August I will
do it sooner.
nigel: Do we think we have the complete set now or will there
be more?
pal: I'm working with some other folks and continuing to
generate more possible implementor names.
tmichel: And we know that Glenn has a client who has asked him
to do some IMSC implementation.
action-387?
<trackbot> action-387 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Collate list
of potential implementors of imsc 1. -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[23]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387
[23] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387
action-387: [meeting 2015-07-02] Some names already provided
and contacted, work ongoing on this action.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-387 Collate list of potential
implementors of imsc 1..
nigel: I've updated the date on the action for 2 weeks from
now, as suggested by pal.
WebVTT review feedback
action-396?
<trackbot> action-396 -- David Singer to Produce evidence of
request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive -- due
2015-04-17 -- OPEN
<trackbot>
[24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
[24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396
tmichel: I've sent an email to Silvia and David asking them for
the status in processing the comments
... from the W3C groups at list. Silvia reported and sent a
link to the bug tracker. They've resolved
... about 13 comments out of about 30, so it's on its way but
they're not done yet. This triggers
... another question for publishing a new WD including the
resolutions into the spec, highlighting
... them with some CSS markup. I believe David agreed to do
that and then send the responses to
... the commenter.
nigel: Normal way to approach dispositions?
tmichel: No, it's a way to propose the changes in the spec.
nigel: My understanding was a little different, that all the
comments would be added either as
... resolutions or as "we're working on this" markers in the
spec, and when that's ready to come to
... the WG with a request to publish a new snapshot as a WD.
tmichel: I think plh wanted to show some activity on the spec
since it's a long time since the most
... recent WD.
... Where I'm unclear is who is going to request to the
commenter if they're happy or not. I think it
... should be the WG not the CG.
pal: I'm confused by why we're not following the same process
as last time.
nigel: I think it's the same process fundamentally but using
different tools.
pal: Last time we reviewed every comment prior to republishing.
nigel: I think we still need to do that, we just haven't got
there yet. We definitely need to review in
... the WG the proposed resolutions as part of the approval for
publishing a new WD.
tmichel: My question is who is going to do the follow-up to
check with commenters if they're happy?
nigel: I think that's down to David. I don't think it matters
if the commenter comments on something
... proposed by the CG or the WG - where it comes from isn't
important, just if the commenter is
... actually happy with it.
tmichel: I agree.
action-396: [Meeting 2015-07-02] Noted that this is ongoing.
<trackbot> Notes added to action-396 Produce evidence of
request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive.
AOB
tmichel: For coming weeks please could you add to the agenda a
review of the TTML2 milestones?
nigel: Okay.
tmichel: I looked with plh and we noted that we had planned to
be in CR by now.
nigel: Thanks everyone. I'll adjourn now - meet again same time
next week. [Adjourns meeting]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: nigel Discuss liaison with Unicode with Richard
Ishida [recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
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Received on Thursday, 2 July 2015 15:16:37 UTC