- From: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
- Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2015 15:18:47 +0000
- To: Timed Text Working Group <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <D1F27398.25548%nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Thanks all for attending today's meeting. Minutes can be found in HTML format at http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-tt-minutes.html
And in text format:
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13 Aug 2015
See also: [2]IRC log
[2] http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-tt-irc
Attendees
Present
nigel, Mike, Pierre, Andreas, Thierry, Courtney
Regrets
Frans
Chair
nigel
Scribe
nigel
Contents
* [3]Topics
1. [4]This meeting
2. [5]Action Items
3. [6]TPAC 2015
4. [7]TTML2 Editorial Actions
5. [8]HTMLCue Proposal
* [9]Summary of Action Items
__________________________________________________________
<trackbot> Date: 13 August 2015
<scribe> scribe: nigel
This meeting
nigel: Agenda for today has a few action items and maybe TPAC
plus the HTMLCue proposal. AOB?
group: No AOB
Action Items
action-409?
<trackbot> action-409 -- Nigel Megitt to Discuss liaison with
unicode with richard ishida -- due 2015-07-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[10]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409
[10] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409
nigel: We sent the message to Mark Davis of Unicode, and
haven't had any response yet.
pal: Something else we can also do is to file an issue on their
tracker, or to supplement the existing one with the new text.
... I'm not sure which one is better. If we haven't heard back
in a week maybe we can do that.
nigel: Okay that's a good idea, let's revisit that if we've had
no response by next week.
close action-409
<trackbot> Closed action-409.
<scribe> ACTION: nigel Add Unicode liaison to weekly meeting
agenda [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-tt-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-414 - Add unicode liaison to weekly
meeting agenda [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-08-20].
TPAC 2015
action-412?
<trackbot> action-412 -- Nigel Megitt to Add draft topics for
tpac to wiki page as discussed today and last week -- due
2015-08-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[12]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/412
[12] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/412
[13]https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015
[13] https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015
nigel: I've done this action - the wiki page holds the topics
we have so far. I've also added my
... arrival and departure times and hotel.
... If you're attending please could you add your name to the
page?
close action-412
<trackbot> Closed action-412.
nigel: I've done that, so closing it. But this agenda item is
an opportunity for more topics.
Courtney: We're close to having a 1st draft of the mapping
document and would like to be able
... to discuss it in person at TPAC - it might take a few hours
to half a day.
nigel: Okay, I and I guess David Singer will have to work out
how to allocate the time over the
... two days to all the topics we have. I'm not sure what
David's plans are but if he's able to be
... present then we'll need to hook up to work out how to share
the time.
... Any other requests?
tmichel: I guess the Timed Text Working Group charter is linked
to the IMSC 2 deliverable. The current
... charter doesn't mention IMSC version numbers, so we'll need
to discuss that. I don't know
... if that needs a charter extension - it's an open issue.
nigel: Thanks, yes that's a good point. I can't remember the
discussions we had when we chose
... to split IMSC up into v1 and v2 but the result was that we
didn't make any charter changes.
tmichel: We can open up discussions with plh when he's back
from vacation, in early September
nigel: If there are no other proposals right now for the
agenda, just a reminder to register
... and book hotels etc.
tmichel: If you register before Sep 26 with the hotels then you
get the discount rate.
... And the advance registration for TPAC closes on Oct 7 -
until then its 85 USD per day
... and after that 170 USD. This is all mentioned on the wiki
page.
[14]http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/#registration
[14] http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/#registration
TTML2 Editorial Actions
action-413?
<trackbot> action-413 -- Nigel Megitt to Update the
ednotes.xlsx to remove/mark up completed work -- due 2015-08-13
-- PENDINGREVIEW
<trackbot>
[15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/413
[15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/413
nigel: I did check that this is up to date - completed work is
marked as C, open as O.
close action-413
<trackbot> Closed action-413.
nigel: I also uploaded a README.txt document for anyone wanting
to make editorial changes.
... I also pushed a couple of examples, for padding and
textAlign on span elements, but
... as far as I can see Glenn hasn't yet regenerated the ED and
pushed it, so you can't see them yet.
... If you want to see them then pull from Mercurial, run ant
to build the HTML and have a look.
... Let me know if you have any difficulties doing that.
HTMLCue Proposal
action-406?
<trackbot> action-406 -- Andreas Tai to Follow on creating a
strawman re: html cue extension specification -- due 2015-07-16
-- OPEN
<trackbot>
[16]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406
[16] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406
atai: I sent round the proposal and there's already been some
discussion. The idea is to
... draft the proposal and then approach developers etc and see
if there's any feedback.
... I would propose to use this and think about to whom we want
to contribute the summary,
... and inform about our planned activity.
[17]https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Aug/0009
.html
[17] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Aug/0009.html
atai: The proposal is very straightforward, which is what we
discussed, that we want an
... implementation of the Text Track Cue interface, with HTML
data instead of VTT.
... And I added some notes to explain why we think that's
useful, to address the feedback
... from previous discussions, that we should highlight why we
need an extension, and
... possibly already have a proposal for how this works out.
... It would allow more than one format to use the Text Track
Cue interface in browsers. The
... solutions could be to map everything to VttCues, to define
a cue type for every format, or
... to define a generic cue. I describe why a generic HTML cue
would be a good solution,
... coming from the feedback from Opera, Glenn and our
discussions. The cue data is HTML
... and it's easy for browsers to render.
nigel: I'm trying to think ahead for what the spec might look
like. We have the idea of a cue
... containing HTML. Then there would be some kind of handler
for an onenter event - that would
... put the HTML payload of the cue somewhere - how would we
specify where?
... And would it append or replace?
atai: I think that's the proposal, and your questions are the
task to solve.
... I want to ask everyone else if they think that's what we
discussed and how realistic it is to
... implement it in browsers.
pal: I don't have an opinion on that other than that to date
there's no generic way in HTML5
... to assign HTML to time events, which is essentially the
proposal. This has been discussed
... in the past and I think Silvia stated factually the
feedback in the past.
nigel: My reading of Silvia's emails is that the world has
moved on and it may be worth raising
... this proposal once again even if it was previously
considered and not taken any further.
atai: I think it's worth taking this and starting some quiet
discussions.
pal: If I'm not mistaken Glenn already proposed a patch on
webkit.
atai: I think it was a TTML implementation proposal.
pal: You might be right - in that case it would be worth
highlighting that this is something different.
atai: The problem with that was that the browser devs didn't
like XML.
nigel: Specifically it was the Google blink community.
atai: I think the proposal from Giuseppe Pascale was to raise
this and see what feedback we get.
pal: Maybe an initial channel to try would be the Web & TV IG.
atai: That may be one, yes. We can send something officially
across groups. Giuseppe also
... proposed contacting the WHATWG. Those would be official
channels. We can also make
... more informal contact.
... Giuseppe mentioned WHATWG because a lot of developers are
on the reflector for that group.
tmichel: I can investigate the options for contacting WHATWG.
atai: We also need to take be aware that we will need a mapping
document from TTML to
... HTML. We would also need to be willing to draft such a
mapping in case an HTMLCue were
... accepted by the other groups.
nigel: There was also a question on the reflector about
implementation in browsers and if
... anyone could do that. Can anyone respond to that question
here?
atai: No, but I think it's an interesting observation that even
VTTCue is implemented by
... mapping VTT into HTML. I think there are open source or
other players that take TTML and
... populate the cue with very HTML-like data. That could be
worth investigating if we can
... point to implementations that use that strategy.
nigel: I don't think it's a secret that EBU has a dash.js fork
on github that takes exactly this
... approach, misusing VTTCue because that's the only thing
that's supported by browsers
... and not showing the track, but using the timing of the cues
to fire onenter and onexit
... events whose handlers simply attach or remove HTML from a
target element.
... In terms of taking this forward, I can as chair take on the
liaison role for sending the
... draft text to Web & TV IG and to the HTML WG and possibly
WHATWG. The first question
... is if the draft text is okay to send now?
pal: Have you considered thinking what the next steps would be,
and for example pointing
... to those areas in the code that convert VTT into HTML?
atai: The idea from Opera would be first to test the idea and
then go into detail later.
... What we discussed in the last face to face meeting is if we
want to initiate a joint meeting
... with HTML WG at TPAC.
nigel: For me I think we could add a little bit more detail
such as pointing to existing code
... or addressing some of the questions like what action
happens on the entry and exit events
... exactly, and how the target element is identified.
... I'm interested to know what Courtney's feeling on this
would be?
Courtney: I'll take a look at this and talk to the webkit guys
about it.
mike: I haven't studied this either. I'm not familiar with this
area though.
nigel: So turning this into actions, we have the one Courtney
just mentioned; I'm happy to try
... to edit the draft to include some of the areas that we know
need addressing but haven't
... wanted to spend time on until we know the idea might be
adopted, and Thierry will
... investigate the possibility of contacting WHATWG.
... I'd like to revisit this next week following these actions
and make some concrete plans
... to contact people e.g. Web & TV IG etc.
... On a possibly related subject is it worth a quick mention
of the TTML WebVTT mapping
... work?
Courtney: Sure. Andreas, Loretta and I have made good progress
on it and hopefully can share
... the draft with the group in the next few weeks. We've
defined sections on layout, style and timing,
... and a TTML profile that matches the WebVTT feature set.
<mike> had to drop for another call
nigel: We're out of time so I'll adjourn the meeting - if we
can come back with those HTMLCue
... actions next week that would be great. Thanks very much
everyone. [adjourns meeting]
close action-406
<trackbot> Closed action-406.
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: nigel Add Unicode liaison to weekly meeting
agenda [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2015/08/13-tt-minutes.html#action01]
[End of minutes]
__________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 13 August 2015 15:19:19 UTC