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TTWG Meeting Minutes March 7, 2013

From: Monica Martin (MS OPEN TECH) <momartin@microsoft.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2013 17:37:59 +0000
To: "'public-tt@w3.org'" <public-tt@w3.org>, "Philippe Hegaret (plh@w3.org)" <plh@w3.org>
Message-ID: <48752f731cc64c3c9189318757100970@BY2PR03MB059.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
Links: 
Text: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-tt-minutes.html,text
HTML: http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-tt-minutes.html

Minutes

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                               Timed Text

07 Mar 2013

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          +49.893.aaaa, Plh, glenn, Andreas, Monica,
          Michael_Jordan

   Regrets
          Sean, Michael_D, Pierre, Frans

   Chair
          Monica J. Martin, Philippe Hegaret

   Scribe
          plh, mmartin3

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]EBU issues
         2. [5]WebVTT
     * [6]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <plh> trackbot, start telcon

   <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

   <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013

   <plh> Chair: Monica J. Martin, Philippe Le Hegaret

   <glenn> calling in now

   <plh> Andreas: [lots of folks from EBU]

   <plh> scribe: plh

   Monica: we'll have a short meeting

   <EBU> EBU Meeting: Matt Simpson (Red Bee Media), John Birch
   (Screen Subtitling), Frans de Jong (EBU), Nigel Megitt (BBC),
   Andreas Tai (IRT), Martin Schmalohr (IRT), Peter tho Pesch
   (IRT), Reinhard Möller (Zeitanker)

   Glenn: I reviewed the text proposed by Mike, and will be able
   to add it this week
   ... and will get a new draft after

   Monica: we had a lengthy with discussion followning the issue
   from Netflix

   <glenn> have received proposed text from MD to add informative
   note in 1.0SE that suggests an interim approach to specifying
   (storage) aspect ratio

   <glenn> i expect to add this text to the 1.0SE ED this week for
   further review by the group

   Monica: the text hasn't come to the list yet
   ... this is related to issue-156, action item-148

   <mmartin3> good morning

   <glenn> Note:

   <glenn> It can be beneficial to presentation processors to
   signal the authorial layout intentions for aspect ratio
   consistent with the semantics of CEA-708-D, section 4.5
   "Caption Service Metadata", "ASPECT RATIO". This can be
   implemented with external namespace metadata, such as
   "m708:aspectRatio" as defined in SMPTE 2052-11, Section 5.4.4.

   Glenn: the text is clearer on which aspect ratio is referred to
   ... might need to fine tune the text

   Monica: we want to make it clear that the text is targetted to
   the presentation processor rather than the author

   <glenn> i may need to alter this text to make clear this is
   storage aspect ratio (SAR), and not pixel aspect ratio (PAR) or
   display aspect ratio (DAR)

   Monica: this is not normative text, just guidance
   ... due to constraint in SE

   Philippe: so the changes would be more substantial in 1.1?

   Glenn: correct, we'll have to introduce new vocabulary

   <mmartin3> Issue-201

   <trackbot> ISSUE-201 -- How to specify aspect ratio to
   understand positioning that may apply for display or video. --
   open

   <trackbot>
   [7]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/201

      [7] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/201

   Monica: and that's a small part of issue-201

   Glenn: keep action-148 open for now

   Monica: let's formalize this over the week

EBU issues

   andreas: we published new updates around our TTML mappings

   <nigelmegitt> EBU-TT part 1:
   [8]http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3350.pdf

      [8] http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3350.pdf

   Andreas: what's the status on the TTML side?

   Monica: thank you for joining us. we made quite a bit of
   progress.
   ... to advance SDP-US
   ... the Note is now posted in the W3C site

   [9]http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/

      [9] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttml10-sdp-us/

   scribe: we worked with Andreas to facilitate the mapping on the
   EBU side
   ... Glenn, any issue we need to bring up?

   Glenn: nope

   <glenn> i'm open to answer any specific questions

   Philippe: we can focus on the 1.0 SE and finish since SDP-US is
   behind now

   Andreas: we're glad to continue participating

WebVTT

   <inserted> scribe: mmartin3

   plh: Finalize spec. May move to Recommendation.
   ... No timeline
   ... Apply to HTML5.

   glenn: Is the worked focused on text track API or in WebVTT to
   support FCC captioning requirements for rollup, painton and
   popup.

   plh: There is an extension to text track interface.

   glenn: Use of JavaScript - how used with content stream?
   Injected, interact with external web page? Don't know how to
   inject JavaScript? Security issues may arise.

   plh: Discuss relationship between WebVTT and TTML.

   glenn: Bug filed to WebKit to add TTML support.
   ... WebKit developer opposed because of WebVTT.
   ... IE10 has support for TTML.
   ... Input to encourage other agents to support TTML directly.
   ... View authoring rather than distribution.
   ... Misunderstanding on how TTML uses XSL-FO to describe
   formatting semantics.
   ... XSL-FO processor is not required.
   ... Add SE section to describe format model that uses HTML5 and
   CSS. Second alternative description of TTML formatting
   semantics.
   ... Help encourage understanding of use of TTML.

   plh: May be significant work.
   ... Publish as Working Group Note on the side.

   glenn: Will send a proposal to the list.
   ... If we map TTML to text track objects, we need to explain
   how to translate HTML5.

   plh: We have a Note identified in Charter.

   mmartin3: Was going to say that.

   glenn: Add informative Annex in SE.

   plh: Formatting item may not be sufficient.

   mjordan: IE has WebVTT support.
   ... Should we map to HTML5 or to WebVTT?

   glenn: Effective to translate into WebVTT.
   ... Add native support for TTML in user agents.
   ... Support TTML movie house commitments.

   mjordan: WebVTT is being rendered in HTML5 in DOM. Can we use a
   similar focus? Your proposal provides a translation which may
   be appropriate.

   glenn: Synchronic Flow Processing in TTML 1.0.
   ... Map synchronic documents to XSL-FO. Do similar description
   to HTML5. CSS.

   <plh> Monica: Sean has done some mapping already, will provide
   a link

   <plh> ... IE supports both WebVTT and TTML

   glenn: IE supports both WebVTT and TTML. TTWG has made
   significant progress.

   <plh> Plh: nothing concrete at this time. if something comes
   up, I'll come back here
   ...andreas: Much discussion in our community.
   ... Will make proposals when our views are more concrete.
   ... Difficult to parse how to use XSL-FO.

   <plh> ACTION: plh to update the Working Group page [recorded in
   [10]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-150 - Update the Working Group page
   [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2013-03-14].

   trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: plh to update the Working Group page [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-tt-minutes.html#action01]

   [End of minutes]


Monica J Martin
Senior Program Manager
Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc. 
A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
Received on Thursday, 7 March 2013 17:39:28 UTC

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