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Minutes - 2013-07-18

From: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>
Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2013 10:13:16 -0600
Message-ID: <CACQ=j+eaPdSXVObyHb+RPohjH8r8Vem9YPoFbJWCJfWofLC+tw@mail.gmail.com>
To: TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
Minutes are available at [1]. A text version follows.

[1] http://www.w3.org/2013/07/18-tt-minutes.html

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                Timed Text Working Group Teleconference

18 Jul 2013

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2013/07/18-tt-irc

Attendees

   Present
          glenn_, +1.858.847.aaaa, +44.118.900.aabb, mike, Sean,
          pal, mijordan, Thomas_Bause_Mason, tmichel

   Regrets
   Chair
          Sean

   Scribe
          glenn_

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Review Action Items
         2. [5]Active Change Proposals
         3. [6]Version # for TTML.next
         4. [7]Member Submission from Movie Labs
         5. [8]TPAC
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     __________________________________________________________

   <trackbot> Date: 18 July 2013

   <scribe> scribenick: glenn_

Review Action Items

   ACTION-41?

   <trackbot> ACTION-41 -- Sean Hayes to ACTION: Sean to start the
   Note on how to use TTML with HTML5/CSS [recorded in
[   ][10]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ttml-minutes.html#action03]
   -- due 2012-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ttml-minutes.html#action03

   <trackbot>
   [11]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/41

     [11] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/41

   close ACTION-41

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-41 ACTION: Sean to start the Note on
   how to use TTML with HTML5/CSS [recorded in
[   ][12]http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ttml-minutes.html#action03].

     [12] http://www.w3.org/2012/02/09-ttml-minutes.html#action03

   <tmichel> I am trying to call ...

   ACTION-55?

   <trackbot> ACTION-55 -- Glenn Adams to work with plh to create
   accessible schema -- due 2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [13]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/55

     [13] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/55

   close ACTION-55

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-55 Work with plh to create accessible
   schema.

   ACTION-69?

   <trackbot> ACTION-69 -- Glenn Adams to investigate correctness
   of 9.3.3 (7) w.r.t. XSL-FO semantics, and report back to WG --
   due 2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [14]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/69

     [14] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/69

   close ACTION-69

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-69 Investigate correctness of 9.3.3
   (7) w.r.t. XSL-FO semantics, and report back to WG.

   ACTION-72?

   <trackbot> ACTION-72 -- Glenn Adams to implement proposed
   changes from ACTION-68 into 9.3.2 of 1.0 2nd Ed. -- due
   2012-06-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [15]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/72

     [15] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/72

   close ACTION-72

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-72 Implement proposed changes from
   ACTION-68 into 9.3.2 of 1.0 2nd Ed..

   ACTION-73?

   <trackbot> ACTION-73 -- Sean Hayes to incorporate result of
   ACTION-71 into CP
   [16]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002 -- due
   2012-07-19 -- PENDINGREVIEW

     [16] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002

   <trackbot>
   [17]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/73

     [17] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/73

   close ACTION-73

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-73 Incorporate result of ACTION-71
   into CP [18]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002.

     [18] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002.

   ACTION-75?

   <trackbot> ACTION-75 -- Glenn Adams to determine best approach
   to refer to external xml.xsd per action 60; may need to deal
   with xml:id separately -- due 2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [19]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/75

     [19] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/75

   <mike> xml.xsd authoriotative link is: www.w3.org/2001/xml.xsd

   Action glenn to update local copy of xml.xsd to use newer copy
   based on above link.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-177 - Update local copy of xml.xsd to
   use newer copy based on above link. [on Glenn Adams - due
   2013-07-25].

   close ACTION-75

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-75 Determine best approach to refer to
   external xml.xsd per action 60; may need to deal with xml:id
   separately.

   ACTION-76?

   <trackbot> ACTION-76 -- Glenn Adams to incorporate results from
   action 56 into 1.1 -- due 2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [20]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/76

     [20] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/76

   close ACTION-76

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-76 Incorporate results from action 56
   into 1.1.

   ACTION-77?

   <trackbot> ACTION-77 -- Glenn Adams to incorporate results from
   endsync resolution per action 52 into 1.0 2ed -- due 2012-07-19
   -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [21]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/77

     [21] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/77

   close ACTION-77

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-77 Incorporate results from endsync
   resolution per action 52 into 1.0 2ed.

   ACTION-83?

   <trackbot> ACTION-83 -- Glenn Adams to draft proposal or spec
   text for ISSUE-174 (canonical concrete syntax for TTML) -- due
   2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [22]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/83

     [22] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/83

   Action sean to open new issue(s) describing problems with
   concrete encoding.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-178 - Open new issue(s) describing
   problems with concrete encoding. [on Sean Hayes - due
   2013-07-25].

   close ACTION-83

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-83 Draft proposal or spec text for
   ISSUE-174 (canonical concrete syntax for TTML).

   ACTION-92?

   <trackbot> ACTION-92 -- Glenn Adams to integrate
   [23]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001 to TTML 1.1.
   -- due 2012-11-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

     [23] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001

   <trackbot>
   [24]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/92

     [24] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/92

   close ACTION-92

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-92 Integrate
   [25]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001 to TTML 1.1..

     [25] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal001

   ACTION-109?

   <trackbot> ACTION-109 -- Mike Dolan to provide examples for
   TTML 1.0 SE. -- due 2012-10-11 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [26]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/109

     [26] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/109

   close ACTION-109

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-109 Provide examples for TTML 1.0 SE..

   ACTION-130?

   <trackbot> ACTION-130 -- Sean Hayes to provide example with
   screen shot to the list for Issue-189 for TTML 1.0 SE portion.
   -- due 2012-11-22 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [27]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/130

     [27] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/130

   close ACTION-130

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-130 Provide example with screen shot
   to the list for Issue-189 for TTML 1.0 SE portion..

   ACTION-132?

   <trackbot> ACTION-132 -- Glenn Adams to create an Annex on
   using of XML wire encoding in TTML 1.0 SE. -- due 2012-12-06 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [28]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/132

     [28] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/132

   close ACTION-132

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-132 Create an Annex on using of XML
   wire encoding in TTML 1.0 SE..

   ACTION-135?

   <trackbot> ACTION-135 -- Sean Hayes to create an issue on set
   element re: transformation between TTML file and synchronic
   documents. Sean to investigate. -- due 2013-01-10 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [29]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/135

     [29] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/135

   close ACTION-135

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-135 Create an issue on set element re:
   transformation between TTML file and synchronic documents. Sean
   to investigate..

   ACTION-136?

   <trackbot> ACTION-136 -- Glenn Adams to integrate changes from
   Action-133 into the TTML 1.0 Second Edition -- due 2013-01-14
   -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [30]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/136

     [30] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/136

   close ACTION-136

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-136 Integrate changes from Action-133
   into the TTML 1.0 Second Edition.

   plh: can you initiate the IANA Media Type registration process
   for TTML10SE (ACTION-88)?
   ... it would be useful to do this as part of the PER review
   period, in case they wish to propose changes in Appendix C

   action Sean to follow up with plh on ACTION-88

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-179 - Follow up with plh on ACTION-88
   [on Sean Hayes - due 2013-07-25].

   ACTION-140?

   <trackbot> ACTION-140 -- Glenn Adams to implement proposal
   Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change
   in SDP-US. -- due 2013-02-07 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [31]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/140

     [31] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/140

   close ACTION-140

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-140 Implement proposal Method#1 in
   TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change in SDP-US..

   ACTION-142?

   <trackbot> ACTION-142 -- Glenn Adams to remove the text from
   the specification and PLH to provide location of the schemas.
   -- due 2013-02-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [32]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/142

     [32] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/142

   close ACTION-142

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-142 Remove the text from the
   specification and PLH to provide location of the schemas..

   ACTION-146?

   <trackbot> ACTION-146 -- Glenn Adams to add prohibited value
   for feature definitions -- due 2013-08-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [33]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/146

     [33] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/146

   close ACTION-146

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-146 add prohibited value for feature
   definitions.

   ACTION-148?

   <trackbot> ACTION-148 -- Glenn Adams to clarify cell units as
   Sean specified in TTWG Meeting Feb 21. -- due 2013-02-28 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [34]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/148

     [34] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/148

   close ACTION-148

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-148 Clarify cell units as Sean
   specified in TTWG Meeting Feb 21..

   ACTION-152?

   <trackbot> ACTION-152 -- Glenn Adams to add set element
   semantics to 9.3.3 -- due 2013-04-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [35]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/152

     [35] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/152

   close ACTION-133

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-133 Create updated template and
   summary of media type record for Glenn..

   close ACTION-152

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-152 Add set element semantics to
   9.3.3.

   ACTION-155?

   <trackbot> ACTION-155 -- Glenn Adams to add note under
   textOutline indicating that length is interpreted only along
   bpd -- due 2013-05-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [36]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/155

     [36] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/155

   close ACTION-155

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-155 Add note under textOutline
   indicating that length is interpreted only along bpd.

   ACTION-157?

   <trackbot> ACTION-157 -- Glenn Adams to restore dedication
   sentence in acknowledgments section -- due 2013-05-09 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [37]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/157

     [37] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/157

   close ACTION-157

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-157 Restore dedication sentence in
   acknowledgments section.

   ACTION-160?

   <trackbot> ACTION-160 -- Glenn Adams to check 10REC errata to
   make sure addressed -- due 2013-05-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [38]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/160

     [38] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/160

   <plh> glenn, I did initiate the media type registration last
   week

   close ACTION-160

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-160 Check 10REC errata to make sure
   addressed.

   <plh> I even gave the link to the status page

   plh: ok, thanks

   <plh> welcome

   ACTION-161?

   <trackbot> ACTION-161 -- Glenn Adams to update change log
   document for SE changes -- due 2013-05-16 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [39]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/161

     [39] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/161

   Action glenn to ensure that 10REC errata page is cleared after
   10SE is published as REC.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-180 - Ensure that 10REC errata page
   is cleared after 10SE is published as REC. [on Glenn Adams -
   due 2013-07-25].

   close ACTION-161

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-161 Update change log document for SE
   changes.

   ACTION-162?

   <trackbot> ACTION-162 -- Glenn Adams to fix XML Doc problem
   with superfluous anchor elements -- due 2013-05-16 --
   PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [40]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/162

     [40] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/162

   close ACTION-162

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-162 Fix XML Doc problem with
   superfluous anchor elements.

   ACTION-170?

   <trackbot> ACTION-170 -- Glenn Adams to create issue to remove
   "(in pixels)" from new definition of computed cell size -- due
   2013-07-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [41]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/170

     [41] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/170

   glenn: re: ACTION-170, the proposed change was effected in the
   10SE ED, so no need to create an issue, action can be closed

   close ACTION-170

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-170 Create issue to remove "(in
   pixels)" from new definition of computed cell size.

   ACTION-171?

   <trackbot> ACTION-171 -- Glenn Adams to add note to PER in
   9.1.2 that regions may appear outside root container region --
   due 2013-07-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [42]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/171

     [42] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/171

   close ACTION-171

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-171 Add note to PER in 9.1.2 that
   regions may appear outside root container region.

   ACTION-175?

   <trackbot> ACTION-175 -- Glenn Adams to create new issue to
   cover third paragraph in original ISSUE-180 text -- due
   2013-07-18 -- PENDINGREVIEW

   <trackbot>
   [43]http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/175

     [43] http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/175

   close ACTION-175

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-175 Create new issue to cover third
   paragraph in original ISSUE-180 text.

Active Change Proposals

   glenn: during process of incorporating CPs into spec, expects
   to make technical changes as required
   ... subject to discussion and review by WG once drafted

   [44]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002

     [44] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal002

   mike: asks about 'holes' w anonymous regions

   glenn: intends to express CP2 in terms of using anonymous
   regions that most cleanly integrate into the current algorithms
   defined in 8.4 Style Resolution and 9.3 Region Layout and
   Presentation
   ... the goal in my mind for using anonymous regions is to
   support CP2 while making the fewest substantive changes to 8.4
   and 9.3

   RESOLVE: implement CP2 in 1.1 ED mutatis mutandis

   [45]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal005

     [45] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal005

   RESOLVE: implement CP5 in 1.1 ED mutatis mutandis

   <Sean> Pierre to draft some introductory text

   Action pal to draft prologue text treating differences between
   having two normative rendering models.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-181 - Draft prologue text treating
   differences between having two normative rendering models. [on
   Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2013-07-25].

   [46]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal006

     [46] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal006

   RESOLUTION: to create separate spec for TTML APIs

   <pal> proposed text for ACTION-181: """In addition to
   describing the semantics of TTML style presentation in terms of
   the model in [XSL 1.1], this specification provides a mapping
   of TTML documents to [HTML 5]. The two representations ([XSL
   1.1] and [HTML 5]) of a given document are intended to be
   visually equivalent unless otherwise noted."""

   RESOLUTION: for sean to be the initial editor of this new TTML
   APIs spec

   close ACTION-181

   <trackbot> Closed ACTION-181 Draft prologue text treating
   differences between having two normative rendering models..

   RESOLVE: implement CP6 in new TTML APIs spec

   <Sean> [47]http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015

     [47] http://www.w3.org/wiki/TTML/changeProposal015

   sean: CP15 aggregates a number of proposed style additions

   glenn: notes that margin may not work on inlines
   ... suggests border apply to content elements as well
   ... for line stacking strategy, need to review what semantics
   CSS provides in this area
   ... for region anchor points, not sure want to overload
   origin/extent

   sean: TTML should support all of t,l,r,b and w/h independently,
   dealing with over/under constraints as needed

   glenn: thinks we should retain textOutline, mapping to CSS
   text-shadow, then we also add textShadow
   ... notes that <set tts:extent/> on region could also be used
   instead of "auto" shrink fit

   RESOLVE: implement CP15 in 1.1ED mutatis mutandis

Version # for TTML.next

   glenn: 2[.0] or 1.1?

   pal: 2 may cause some readers to believe there are non-backward
   compatible changes

   mike: .X doesn't have defined semantics, likes whole integers

   sean: 1.1 already in place, and some potential expectations to
   produce a small increment (more quickly) and a larger increment
   (less quickly)
   ... can defer this decision, at least up to FPWD time

   [48]http://www.w3.org/Submission/2013/SUBM-ttml-ww-profiles-201
   30607/#bib-TTML2

     [48] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2013/SUBM-ttml-ww-profiles-20130607/#bib-TTML2

   RESOLVE: use TTML2 (not 2.0)

   glenn: propose "ttml2"

   RESOLVE: request "ttml2" short name

   tmichel: agrees that ttml2 short name is good, and can set up
   link to current 1.0 using a ttml1 short name

   Action tmichel to create ttml2 and ttml1 short names, to change
   tracker product labels as needed

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-182 - Create ttml2 and ttml1 short
   names, to change tracker product labels as needed [on Thierry
   Michel - due 2013-07-25].

Member Submission from Movie Labs

   pal: notes submission at
   [49]http://www.w3.org/Submission/2013/SUBM-ttml-ww-profiles-201
   30607/

     [49] http://www.w3.org/Submission/2013/SUBM-ttml-ww-profiles-20130607/

   sean: will add this to next week's agenda

TPAC

   sean: folks should register

   pal: would like to focus work on Monday at TPAC since Tuesday
   overlaps with Web&TV IG

   <Sean> action, sean t o work with philippe on tpac schedule

   Action sean to work with plh on TPAC schedule.

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-183 - Work with plh on TPAC schedule.
   [on Sean Hayes - due 2013-07-25].

   trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Found ScribeNick: glenn_
Inferring Scribes: glenn_
Default Present: glenn_, +1.858.847.aaaa, +44.118.900.aabb, mike, Sean,
pal, mijordan, Thomas_Bause_Mason, tmichel
Present: glenn_ +1.858.847.aaaa +44.118.900.aabb mike Sean pal mijordan
Thomas_Bause_Mason tmichel
Found Date: 18 Jul 2013
Guessing minutes URL: [53]http://www.w3.org/2013/07/18-tt-minutes.html
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