W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > February 2013

TTWG Meeting Minutes Jan 31, 2013

From: Monica Martin (MS OPEN TECH) <momartin@microsoft.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 05:47:46 +0000
To: "'public-tt@w3.org'" <public-tt@w3.org>
Message-ID: <5a9cc355d5ef43da809680f84a1d5005@BY2PR03MB059.namprd03.prod.outlook.com>
TTWG Meeting Minutes Jan 31:
http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-irc.txt
http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-irc.html

Sorry for any inconvenience. IRC got a little cranky when I lost my Internet connection during the call and then wouldn't generate the minutes when requested.

Generated IRC log is below.
IRC log of tt on 2013-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.
14:58:22 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tt
14:58:22 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-irc
14:58:24 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:24 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #tt
14:58:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TTML
14:58:26 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:27 [trackbot]
Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:58:27 [trackbot]
Date: 31 January 2013
14:58:38 [mmartin3]
Chair
14:58:40 [mmartin3]
Sean Hayes
14:58:47 [mmartin3]
scribenick: mmartin3
14:58:55 [mmartin3]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:58:55 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, mmartin3
14:58:56 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Sean, mmartin3, glenn, trackbot
15:00:34 [plh]
plh has joined #tt
15:01:02 [mike]
mike has joined #tt
15:01:06 [glenn]
calling in now
15:01:54 [pal]
pal has joined #tt
15:02:05 [mmartin3]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:05 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, mmartin3
15:02:06 [Zakim]
On IRC I see pal, mike, plh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sean, mmartin3, glenn, trackbot
15:02:27 [Andreas]
Andreas has joined #tt
15:03:28 [mijordan]
mijordan has joined #tt
15:03:50 [mmartin3]
zakim, list attendees
15:03:50 [Zakim]
sorry, mmartin3, I don't know what conference this is
15:04:01 [mmartin3]
zakim, list attendees #tt
15:04:01 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'list attendees #tt', mmartin3
15:04:05 [glenn]
zakim, this is #ttwg
15:04:05 [Zakim]
sorry, glenn, I do not see a conference named '#ttwg' in progress or scheduled at this time
15:04:12 [glenn]
zakim, list conferences
15:04:13 [Zakim]
I see BG_Oil Gas()10:00AM, XML_PMWG()10:00AM, SW_RDFa()10:00AM, WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM, T&S_GLDWG()10:00AM, SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM active
15:04:13 [Zakim]
also scheduled at this time are Team_Global(review)8:00AM, Team_(CRM)9:30AM, Math_IG()10:00AM, Team_Comm()10:00AM, DIG_weekly()10:00AM, WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM,
15:04:13 [Zakim]
... MM_MMI(EMMA)10:00AM, I18N_MLW WG(LT)9:00AM, INC_(DecisionXG)10:00AM
15:04:22 [glenn]
zakim, this is SYMM_TTWG
15:04:22 [Zakim]
ok, glenn; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM
15:04:33 [mmartin3]
TOPIC: Second Edition
15:04:59 [Zakim]
+glenn
15:05:01 [mmartin3]
plh: We are not allowed to go to LC given the structure; we can only go to PR.
15:05:19 [mmartin3]
..Requires revised charter if substantive changes.
15:05:28 [mmartin3]
sean: We aren't making substantive changes.
15:06:04 [mmartin3]
plh: Halt publication or publish as Working Draft.
15:06:20 [mmartin3]
glenn: Edits aren't complete.
15:06:35 [mmartin3]
plh: We agreed to do so Jan 24.
15:06:54 [mmartin3]
...Not First Public Working Draft but a Working Draft with no policy implications.
15:07:49 [mmartin3]
No objections spoken on Working Draft publication of TTML 1.0 SE.
15:08:00 [mmartin3]
glenn: To clarify, go to PR later.
15:08:09 [Zakim]
+Thomas_Bause_Mason
15:08:24 [mmartin3]
plh: Has a different patent policy for what is allowed in the charter.
15:08:44 [mmartin3]
mike: May inject new IPR.
15:08:46 [tbause]
tbause has joined #tt
15:10:01 [mmartin3]
Resolved to proceed to publish TTML 1.0 Second Edition as Working Draft.
15:10:05 [mmartin3]
TOPIC: SDP-US
15:10:25 [mmartin3]
glenn: Are we ready to publish?
15:10:35 [mmartin3]
sean: Talk about Issue-199 first.
15:10:47 [Zakim]
-Plh
15:10:58 [mmartin3]
TOPIC: Issues
15:11:01 [mmartin3]
Issue-199?
15:11:01 [trackbot]
ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases -- raised
15:11:01 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199
15:11:53 [mmartin3]
sean: Describes issues on timeExpression with non-integer values.
15:12:12 [mmartin3]
...Frame rates. Little use thus far.
15:12:18 [mmartin3]
...Check however.
15:12:39 [mmartin3]
...Captions can drift up to 3.5 seconds per hour given algorithm used.
15:12:59 [pal_]
pal_ has joined #tt
15:13:17 [mmartin3]
...DECE uses hh:mm:ss since you hit the play button.
15:13:39 [mmartin3]
...Other is take frame expression as an odometer and count, then map to dilated time in the video.
15:14:18 [mmartin3]
...SDP-US affected.
15:15:16 [mmartin3]
...Who has dones what?
15:16:14 [mmartin3]
...We've used second approach but haven't actively used.
15:16:33 [mmartin3]
mjordan: We used Method #1.
15:17:11 [mmartin3]
sean: Assume use SMPTE mechanism.
15:17:22 [mmartin3]
..As Adobe has.
15:18:49 [mmartin3]
mike: Interpreted Method #1 - decoders and movie houses. Deluxe uses Method #2 but were doing with 2 studios (who use Method #1).
15:19:23 [mmartin3]
...We have to spell out semantics.
15:19:52 [mmartin3]
s/...We/sean: We
15:20:26 [mmartin3]
sean: We can move forward with SDP-US and if TTML 1.0 SE semantics change, there is not an issue.
15:20:51 [mmartin3]
...Any objections?
15:20:59 [mmartin3]
No objections vetted.
15:22:19 [mmartin3]
RESOLVED to accept Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE which is aligned with DECE. This resolves any blocking change in SDP-US. Create action for Glenn to implement.
15:22:31 [mmartin3]
This resolves Issue-199.
15:22:35 [mmartin3]
No objections.
15:22:42 [mmartin3]
Action Glenn to implement proposal Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change in SDP-US.
15:22:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-140 - Implement proposal Method#1 in TTML 1.0 SE and this resolves any blocking change in SDP-US. [on Glenn Adams - due 2013-02-07].
15:23:09 [mmartin3]
TOPIC: SDP-US
15:23:32 [mmartin3]
sean: Resolution of Issue-199 unblocks SDP-US.
15:23:36 [mmartin3]
Issue-198?
15:23:36 [trackbot]
ISSUE-198 -- Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready Recognition -- pending review
15:23:36 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/198
15:23:47 [mmartin3]
sean: We can close this as implemented.
15:23:58 [mmartin3]
.mmartin3: Yes.
15:24:11 [mmartin3]
Close Issue-198
15:24:12 [trackbot]
Closed ISSUE-198 Add TTML in Title of SDP-US for Ready Recognition.
15:24:39 [mmartin3]
Updated draft: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/default/ttml10-sdp-us/Overview.html
15:24:56 [mmartin3]
sean: Advance to Working Group Note.
15:25:06 [mmartin3]
RESOLVED to publish SDP-US as Working Group Note.
15:25:11 [mmartin3]
No objections.
15:25:30 [mmartin3]
sean: Will ask PLH to publish.
15:25:38 [mmartin3]
Issue-172
15:25:38 [trackbot]
ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- open
15:25:38 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172
15:27:05 [mmartin3]
glenn: Questions raised by Sony - pseudo code or prose.
15:27:10 [mmartin3]
..Need to review.
15:27:50 [mmartin3]
sean: May be related to our implementers in that the algorithm is different between the prose and the psudo-code.
15:28:11 [mmartin3]
glenn: Prose is correct. Need to correct pseudo-code.
15:28:41 [mmartin3]
..Need to review both the prose and pseudo-code. Ensure prose is correct.
15:29:04 [mmartin3]
sean: Similar to our issue so we should sort out Feb 7.
15:29:41 [mmartin3]
glenn: Work on SE issue. Not present Feb 7 as in CSS meeting.
15:29:51 [mmartin3]
...Report Feb 14.
15:30:11 [mmartin3]
sean: Step #3 isn't reflected in the pseudo code.
15:30:35 [mmartin3]
glenn: Sony's questions are the same and that I observed in my review.
15:31:04 [mmartin3]
New Issues
15:31:14 [mmartin3]
sean: Aspect ratio
15:31:32 [mmartin3]
s/New Issues/TOPIC: New Issues
15:32:39 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
15:34:50 [Zakim]
+??P6
15:38:13 [mmartin3]
mmartin3 has joined #tt
15:38:35 [mmartin3]
test
15:38:43 [mmartin3]
continue Aspect Ratio
15:38:48 [mmartin3]
(Sorry lost my connection).
15:39:16 [mmartin3]
glenn: SDP-US uses % with 4x3 and replay 16x9 resize and move.Correct?
15:39:19 [mmartin3]
sean: Yes.
15:39:27 [mmartin3]
Discussion on how SDP-US works.
15:39:47 [mmartin3]
sean: SDP-US doesn't use pixels.
15:40:05 [mmartin3]
glenn: Relative positioning .
15:40:30 [mmartin3]
sean: Multiple 4x3 transformations to 16x9 on TV. How do we signal the content?
15:41:07 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:41:11 [Zakim]
-??P6
15:41:18 [mmartin3]
zakim, Microsoft is mmartin3
15:41:18 [Zakim]
+mmartin3; got it
15:41:47 [mmartin3]
pal: Could we use percentages with some caveats, it will work.
15:42:09 [mmartin3]
sean: Issues on how you position regions in some cases.
15:42:54 [mmartin3]
glenn: Need to scale and preserve aspect ratio.
15:43:50 [mmartin3]
Discuss options.
15:44:54 [mmartin3]
pal: Unambiguous association between root container and media object. You don't have pixels with its issues. TTML 1.0 SE doesn't articulate it. SDP-US doesn't resolve questions to us on the list.
15:45:21 [mmartin3]
sean: SDP-US is a specific solution but doesn't appear to work for Netflix.
15:46:01 [mmartin3]
...Invite experts to attend and explain their issues. or to open an issue.
15:46:12 [mmartin3]
s/issues./issues
15:46:23 [mmartin3]
mike:
15:46:36 [mmartin3]
We need to ask Netflix to articulate what they need.
15:47:17 [mmartin3]
mmartin3: Netlfix have been following this work.
15:47:32 [mmartin3]
sean: Ask them to attend and articulate their requirements.
15:47:46 [mmartin3]
Issue-173?
15:47:46 [trackbot]
ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- open
15:47:46 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
15:47:54 [mmartin3]
return to
15:48:00 [mmartin3]
TOPIC:Issues
15:48:03 [mmartin3]
Issue-173?
15:48:03 [trackbot]
ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- open
15:48:03 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
15:48:48 [mmartin3]
glenn: No progress on SE issues.
15:48:50 [mmartin3]
Defer others.
15:49:07 [mmartin3]
sean: Progress on SE by 2 weeks.
15:49:23 [mmartin3]
glenn: Will try to work on.
15:49:28 [mmartin3]
sean: Behind on timeline on SE.
15:50:27 [mmartin3]
glenn: Most items are straightforward. Need to think about timing semantics and regions.
15:51:16 [mmartin3]
...Issue-175 Someone could help step in as editor.
15:51:48 [mmartin3]
sean: Call
15:51:58 [mmartin3]
on Feb 7 and make a decision if we need more editors.
15:52:20 [mmartin3]
sean: No other items today. No other business identified when asked.
15:52:23 [mmartin3]
...Adjourned.
15:52:27 [Zakim]
-Andreas
15:52:28 [Zakim]
-Thomas_Bause_Mason
15:52:28 [Zakim]
-glenn
15:52:30 [Zakim]
-sean
15:52:31 [Zakim]
-pal
15:52:31 [Zakim]
- +1.617.347.aaaa
15:52:32 [mmartin3]
zakim, list attendees
15:52:32 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been sean, mike, Plh, pal, Andreas, +1.617.347.aaaa, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, mmartin3
15:52:32 [Zakim]
-mike
15:52:40 [mmartin3]
trackbot, end meeting
15:52:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:52:40 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been sean, mike, Plh, pal, Andreas, +1.617.347.aaaa, glenn, Thomas_Bause_Mason, mmartin3
15:52:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:52:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/31-tt-minutes.html trackbot
15:52:49 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:52:49 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items

Monica J Martin
Senior Program Manager
Microsoft Open Technologies, Inc.
A subsidiary of Microsoft Corporation
Received on Wednesday, 6 February 2013 05:49:48 UTC

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