W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > December 2013

Re: Issue-286 padding

From: Innovimax W3C <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 18:14:27 +0100
Message-ID: <CAAK2GfFW1rthYLkKxORTkA7jUe52Dd0Ck9vFq90rgGdEvoDCBg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>
Cc: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>, TTWG <public-tt@w3.org>
It seems we're making harder and harder the goal of one of the deliverable :

[[ Working Group Note on the application of TTML to HTML5 (i.e. mapping of
TTML to HTML5/CSS3) ]]

Can't we try to extend first-line pseudo element
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-selectors/#first-line ?

Will it be helpful?

It seems we also have to find a similar mecanism for the Digipub IG

Mohamed

On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>wrote:

>  The box model does not provide a mechanism to target each post-layout
> rendered line within a box, and it is not possible explicitly to put each
> line within a separate box-equivelent TTML element when authoring a
> document because this would not allow for line breaks generated during
> layout.
>
>  However the EBU solution is intended to be minimally incompatible with
> the box model for example by using the box padding approach of creating an
> inset box for text layout rather than extending the laid out text
> outwardly, which would create a potential scenario in which the line
> background color area would overlap with the region padding area, that
> might have a different background color.
>
>  Nigel
>
>
>   On 19/12/2013 16:47, "Innovimax W3C" <innovimax+w3c@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>   Can't we just reuse the CSS Box Model ?
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/box.html
>
>  Mohamed
>
> On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 5:36 PM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>wrote:
>
>>  On further reflection EBU decided to avoid potential causing confusion
>> by overloading padding on p in the way originally described, and refactored
>> the proposed solution to meet strictly the original requirement:
>>
>>  It is now an attribute called ebutts:linePadding.
>> It is an inherited property that is applied to rendered lines within
>> block elements.
>> It has a single value that is applied equally to the start and end edges
>> of each line and not to before and after edges.
>> The unit permitted is a non-negative number with option decimal fraction
>> followed by "c", i.e it uses the c metric.
>> Each line area is extended by the distance specified.
>> The maximum available inline progression distance in which foreground
>> text may be laid out on a single line in a block element is diminished by
>> 2x the linePadding distance.
>>  The background color that applies at each start and end edge is used to
>> extend the background color fill within the extended line area.
>>
>>  The attached diagram replaces the previously circulated diagram and
>> exemplifies most of the above (in this case for left justified lines).
>>
>>  Nigel
>>
>>
>>
>>   On 04/12/2013 16:11, "Nigel Megitt" <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     Specifically on padding, the EBU discussed this requirement further
>> last week and agreed that the requirement that foreground layout must not
>> be affected can be relaxed: even though it's not the ideal solution it does
>> have a safe fallback. This in turn permitted a revised requirement that
>> should be easier to implement in CSS and can be expressed as a definition
>> of tts:padding on <p>, which is currently not defined in TTML. The attached
>> diagram explains the expected behaviour, i.e. that padding is applied to
>> each rendered line and acts very much like a line-based version of region
>> padding.
>>
>>  Note that this solution does not define <span> based padding which
>> wouldn't really work here  the padding would interfere with intended
>> spacing. However EBU does not have a requirement for this.
>>
>>  Nigel
>>
>>   On 13/11/2013 16:07, "Glenn Adams" <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>>
>>   The attached shows the difference between putting the
>> background/padding on span versus p. Take your pick.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:15 PM, Nigel Megitt <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk>wrote:
>>
>>>  Thanks Glenn,
>>>
>>>  I'm not sure this meets the described rowPadding requirements - the
>>> padding appears to be attached to the <p> not the rendered rows of text, so
>>> if an automatic (i.e. not explicit) line break is inserted the padding
>>> isn't added to the new rows. Is there a way to extend it to do that as well?
>>>
>>>  Nigel
>>>
>>>  ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Glenn Adams [glenn@skynav.com]
>>> *Sent:* 13 November 2013 03:03
>>> *To:* TTWG
>>> *Subject:* Re: row align and padding
>>>
>>>    Here's are two versions that work on Safari. For Safari 6.0.5 or
>>> earlier, use the one labeled old syntax. For 6.1 and 7.0, use the other
>>> (which uses new syntax). Safari still requires use of the "-webkit-" prefix
>>> in both cases.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 5:09 AM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simplified and clean up example, using single <p> for each caption's
>>>> text (instead of separate p per line).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The attached uses to CSS3 Flexbox and a few other properties to
>>>>> produce the desired effects for the row align and padding examples I've
>>>>> seen. It works on current versions of Chrome, Firefox, and Opera. It
>>>>> doesn't seem to work on Safari 6.0.5. I haven't tested IE, but supposedly
>>>>> IE10 and following supports Flexbox.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
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> http://www.bbc.co.uk
> This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal
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-- 
Innovimax SARL
Consulting, Training & XML Development
9, impasse des Orteaux
75020 Paris
Tel : +33 9 52 475787
Fax : +33 1 4356 1746
http://www.innovimax.fr
RCS Paris 488.018.631
SARL au capital de 10.000 
Received on Thursday, 19 December 2013 17:14:55 UTC

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