W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > May 2012

Re: Padding on tt:p and tt:span elements

From: Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de>
Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 08:33:40 +0200
Message-ID: <4FBDD644.3030203@irt.de>
To: public-tt@w3.org
For the EBU subset of TTML we have to include a change of the padding 
attribute in the version 1.0 to meet requirements of our target group. 
As understood a change that adresses Issue 168 
(http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/168) will be adopted in 
TTML earliest in 2013. Nevertheless it would be good that the wording in 
the EBU-TT spec is aligned with an expected change in TTML 1.1.

The application of padding to p and span will be specified in the EBU-TT 
spec as follows:

"Padding (or inset) space on all sides of a block area generated by a 
tt:p element or an inline area generated by a tt:span element.

The padding property shall not be inherited."

It would be great to hear your opinion.

Best regards,

Andreas


Am 08.05.2012 22:27, schrieb Sean Hayes:
> Hmm. I was sure I'd created an issue for this, but apparently not.
>
> ISSUE-168 <https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/168> added 
> to database
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Andreas Tai [tai@irt.de]
> *Sent:* 08 May 2012 6:26 PM
> *To:* Sean Hayes
> *Cc:* Glenn Adams; John Birch; public-tt@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Padding on tt:p and tt:span elements
>
> Will there be an entry in the tracker for this?
>
> In addition I attach an html-example that shows the wished behaviour 
> and a CSS definition that is similiar to the needed TTML styles.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Andreas
>
> Am 25.04.2012 21:56, schrieb Sean Hayes:
>>
>> While what you say is true it is very inconvenient from an authoring 
>> perspective, and if the user can set the font (which is a requirement 
>> of the FCC rules), then you need the region to be able to adapt. 
>> Better to use the <p> background which does adapt naturally. You can 
>> artificially introduce the padding using spans with preserved space, 
>> however this is a pretty ugly hack. I think it makes sense to allow 
>> padding on these elements.
>>
>> *From:*Glenn Adams [mailto:glenn@skynav.com]
>> *Sent:* 25 April 2012 17:04
>> *To:* John Birch
>> *Cc:* tai@irt.de; public-tt@w3.org
>> *Subject:* Re: Padding on tt:p and tt:span elements
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 9:33 AM, John Birch 
>> <John.Birch@screensystems.tv <mailto:John.Birch@screensystems.tv>> wrote:
>>
>> You hit the nail on the head. Font size at authoring time is only 
>> true if font exists at browser... Otherwise substitution means all 
>> bets are off.
>>
>> not quite; you can always overestimate the size which permits 
>> containment without overflow
>>
>>     Best regards,
>>     John
>>
>>     *From*: Glenn Adams [mailto:glenn@skynav.com
>>     <mailto:glenn@skynav.com>]
>>     *Sent*: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 04:00 PM
>>     *To*: John Birch
>>     *Cc*: Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de <mailto:tai@irt.de>>; public-tt
>>     <public-tt@w3.org <mailto:public-tt@w3.org>>
>>     *Subject*: Re: Padding on tt:p and tt:span elements
>>
>>     On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 5:22 AM, John Birch
>>     <John.Birch@screensystems.tv
>>     <mailto:John.Birch@screensystems.tv>> wrote:
>>
>>     In TTML as I understand it(as a result of derivation from
>>     xsl:fo?), there is no possible mechanism that can *set* the
>>     region size as a result of a calculation of the *rendered* text
>>     size on the display. In contrast to broadcast practises, in TTML
>>     the text is fitted inside a predefined region (or overflows /
>>     clips), rather than the region (growing) fitting the text.
>>
>>     it can, if the size can be determined at authoring time; but that
>>     will depend on font usage; so you are correct that if the font
>>     size is unknown, then you may have to overestimate the size,
>>     e.g., by using em or c length units
>>
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>
>
> -- 
> ------------------------------------------------
> Andreas Tai
> Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH
> R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
> Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany
>
> Phone: +49 89 32399-389 | Fax: +49 89 32399-200
> http:www.irt.de  | Email:tai@irt.de
> ------------------------------------------------
>
> registration court&   managing director:
> Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191
> Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns
> ------------------------------------------------


-- 
------------------------------------------------
Andreas Tai
Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH
R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany

Phone: +49 89 32399-389 | Fax: +49 89 32399-200
http: www.irt.de | Email: tai@irt.de
------------------------------------------------

registration court&   managing director:
Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191
Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns
------------------------------------------------
Received on Thursday, 24 May 2012 06:35:45 UTC

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