- From: Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de>
- Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 13:45:10 +0200
- To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>, public-tt <public-tt@w3.org>
- Message-ID: <4FD87D46.2070801@irt.de>
Thanks for taking this up. Background of the question is still, what the interpretation should be if no profile element or attribute was specified in a TTML document. It would be interesting to know if current TTML processors are conformant TTML transformation and/or conformant TTML presentation processors. Best regards, Andreas Am 13.06.2012 05:04, schrieb Glenn Adams: > > On Tue, Jun 12, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de > <mailto:tai@irt.de>> wrote: > > Thanks for the helpful analysis, Glenn. > > Yes, at the end it is about a conformant TTML generic processor. > Is it possible that a TTML generic processor does not support the > profile feature (and hence is not a conformant transformation nor > presentation processor)? > > > It is an open question in my mind, since, to my knowledge, we never > considered the idea of a TTML processor that conformed only to the > generic requirements, but not to either transformation/presentation > processor requirements. However, I don't see anything in TTML 1.0 that > rules out such an implementation, it's just that it could not claim to > be either a conforming transformation or presentation processor. > > > Am 11.06.2012 19:42, schrieb Glenn Adams: >> >> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de >> <mailto:tai@irt.de>> wrote: >> >> From my reading the profile mechanism is a TTML feature >> itself and can be optional. So if the context make the >> profile mechanism optional it is not needed for a TTML >> processor to implement it. Am I correct? >> >> >> yes, #profile is an enumerated feature [1] >> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-profile >> >> however, it is also a mandatory feature for both transformation >> [2] and presentation [3] profiles >> >> [2] >> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-transformation-mandatory-table >> [3] >> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-presentation-mandatory-table >> >> finally, a conformant transformation processor [4] and a >> conformant presentation processor [5] are obliged to support the >> transformation and presentation profiles, respectively >> >> [4] >> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-transformation-processor >> [5] >> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-presentation-processor >> >> so, when you ask "it is not needed for a TTML processor to >> implement it", then the answer is yes if you mean either a >> "conformant TTML transformation processor" or a "conformant TTML >> presentation processor" >> >> >> Furthermore it maybe a possibility for TTML 1.1 to reflect on >> the profile mechanism with respect to it´s implementation by >> TTML users/processors. >> >> >> what I think you may be asking here is whether a TTML processor >> may be a "conformant TTML generic processor" [6], but neither a >> (conformant) transformation processor nor a (conformant) >> presentation processor; is that correct? >> >> [6] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-generic-processor >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> Andreas >> >> Am 06.06.2012 18:28, schrieb Glenn Adams: >>> ok, that's a reasonable clarification; i agree that "if the >>> document interchange context does not specify a profile" is >>> not sufficiently precise >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Michael A Dolan >>> <mdolan@newtbt.com <mailto:mdolan@newtbt.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I agree with the spirit of what you say. But as >>> drafted, the Recommendation is using a defined term, >>> “profile”, so I disagree that it does not, as drafted, >>> require a profile document. That’s the issue. Even if >>> you read it differently, the point is that others read >>> it the same as I do, and therefore it needs >>> clarification. I proposed “conforming subset or >>> something more generic”. How about “…and if the >>> document interchange context does not specify a profile >>> document, or other equivalent set of feature designators,…” >>> >>> Whatever wording works for you is fine with me. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Mike >>> >>> *From:*Glenn Adams [mailto:glenn@skynav.com >>> <mailto:glenn@skynav.com>] >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:49 AM >>> *To:* Michael A Dolan >>> *Cc:* public-tt@w3.org <mailto:public-tt@w3.org> >>> >>> >>> *Subject:* Re: more profile confusion >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Michael A Dolan >>> <mdolan@newtbt.com <mailto:mdolan@newtbt.com>> wrote: >>> >>> Another troubling profile sentence in 5.2 was called to >>> my attention: >>> >>> If neither|ttp:profile| >>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#parameter-attribute-profile>attribute >>> nor|ttp:profile| >>> <http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#parameter-vocabulary-profile>element >>> is present in a TTML document instance, and if the >>> document interchange context does not specify a profile, >>> then the DFXP Transformation profile applies. >>> >>> A “document interchange context” might well fully define >>> a conforming subset definition, but it may or may not >>> formally define a “profile” as defined in the >>> recommendation. >>> >>> An instance document would more likely declare its >>> conformance by some other means, such as reference to a >>> schema, or using xml-model, or simply by its context >>> (e.g. a branded MP4 file). >>> >>> When we get to overhauling the profile language, we >>> should fix the above, minimally replacing “profile” with >>> “conforming subset” or something more generic that does >>> not imply a TTML Profile definition is required. >>> >>> Actually, I think I do not agree with this. The point of >>> the above cited language is to ensure that the >>> applicable profile is well defined, since it is >>> necessary to know the applicable profile in order to >>> perform processing in a compliant manner. >>> >>> As reference to a profile defined/specified by a >>> document interchange context is intended to serve as a >>> out-of-band protocol to allow determination of which >>> profile applies. It does not mean that a ttp profile >>> document must be available for either author or client, >>> it means that the information that would be included in >>> such a document is known is some manner, whether or not >>> it is defined in a profile file. >>> >>> Finally, the phrase "conforming subset" has no formal >>> meaning/use in TTML at present other than indirectly >>> through the use of profile definitions. >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ------------------------------------------------ >> Andreas Tai >> Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH >> R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR >> Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany >> >> Phone:+49 89 32399-389 <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-389> | Fax:+49 89 32399-200 <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-200> >> http:www.irt.de <http://www.irt.de> | Email:tai@irt.de <mailto:tai@irt.de> >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> registration court& managing director: >> Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191 >> Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns >> ------------------------------------------------ >> >> > > > -- > ------------------------------------------------ > Andreas Tai > Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH > R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR > Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany > > Phone:+49 89 32399-389 <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-389> | Fax:+49 89 32399-200 <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-200> > http:www.irt.de <http://www.irt.de> | Email:tai@irt.de <mailto:tai@irt.de> > ------------------------------------------------ > > registration court& managing director: > Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191 > Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns > ------------------------------------------------ > > -- ------------------------------------------------ Andreas Tai Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany Phone: +49 89 32399-389 | Fax: +49 89 32399-200 http: www.irt.de | Email: tai@irt.de ------------------------------------------------ registration court& managing director: Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191 Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns ------------------------------------------------
Received on Wednesday, 13 June 2012 11:52:11 UTC