W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-tt@w3.org > June 2012

Re: more profile confusion ( ISSUE-170)

From: Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de>
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 17:21:28 +0200
Message-ID: <4FD75E78.7090402@irt.de>
To: Glenn Adams <glenn@skynav.com>, public-tt <public-tt@w3.org>
Thanks for the helpful analysis, Glenn.

Yes, at the end it is about a conformant TTML generic processor. Is it 
possible that a TTML generic processor does not support the profile 
feature (and hence is not a conformant transformation nor presentation 
processor)?

Am 11.06.2012 19:42, schrieb Glenn Adams:
>
> On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:27 AM, Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de 
> <mailto:tai@irt.de>> wrote:
>
>     From my reading the profile mechanism is a TTML feature itself and
>     can be optional. So if the context make the profile mechanism
>     optional it is not needed for a TTML processor to implement it. Am
>     I correct?
>
>
> yes, #profile is an enumerated feature [1]
>
> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-profile
>
> however, it is also a mandatory feature for both transformation [2] 
> and presentation [3] profiles
>
> [2] 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-transformation-mandatory-table
> [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#feature-presentation-mandatory-table
>
> finally, a conformant transformation processor [4] and a conformant 
> presentation processor [5] are obliged to support the transformation 
> and presentation profiles, respectively
>
> [4] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-transformation-processor
> [5] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-presentation-processor
>
> so, when you ask "it is not needed for a TTML processor to implement 
> it", then the answer is yes if you mean either a "conformant TTML 
> transformation processor" or a "conformant TTML presentation processor"
>
>
>     Furthermore it maybe a possibility for TTML 1.1 to reflect on the
>     profile mechanism with respect to it´s implementation by TTML
>     users/processors.
>
>
> what I think you may be asking here is whether a TTML processor may be 
> a "conformant TTML generic processor" [6], but neither a (conformant) 
> transformation processor nor a (conformant) presentation processor; is 
> that correct?
>
> [6] http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#conformance-generic-processor
>
>
>     Best regards,
>
>     Andreas
>
>     Am 06.06.2012 18:28, schrieb Glenn Adams:
>>     ok, that's a reasonable clarification; i agree that "if the
>>     document interchange context does not specify a profile" is not
>>     sufficiently precise
>>
>>     On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 10:07 AM, Michael A Dolan
>>     <mdolan@newtbt.com <mailto:mdolan@newtbt.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         I agree with the spirit of what you say.  But as drafted, the
>>         Recommendation is using a defined term, “profile”, so I
>>         disagree that it does not, as drafted, require a profile
>>         document.  That’s the issue.  Even if you read it
>>         differently, the point is that others read it the same as I
>>         do, and therefore it needs clarification.  I proposed
>>         “conforming subset or something more generic”.  How about
>>         “…and if the document interchange context does not specify a
>>         profile document, or other equivalent set of feature
>>         designators,…”
>>
>>         Whatever wording works for you is fine with me.
>>
>>         Regards,
>>
>>                         Mike
>>
>>         *From:*Glenn Adams [mailto:glenn@skynav.com
>>         <mailto:glenn@skynav.com>]
>>         *Sent:* Wednesday, June 06, 2012 8:49 AM
>>         *To:* Michael A Dolan
>>         *Cc:* public-tt@w3.org <mailto:public-tt@w3.org>
>>
>>
>>         *Subject:* Re: more profile confusion
>>
>>         On Wed, Jun 6, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Michael A Dolan
>>         <mdolan@newtbt.com <mailto:mdolan@newtbt.com>> wrote:
>>
>>         Another troubling profile sentence in 5.2 was called to my
>>         attention:
>>
>>         If neither|ttp:profile|
>>         <http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#parameter-attribute-profile>attribute
>>         nor|ttp:profile|
>>         <http://www.w3.org/TR/ttaf1-dfxp/#parameter-vocabulary-profile>element
>>         is present in a TTML document instance, and if the document
>>         interchange context does not specify a profile, then the DFXP
>>         Transformation profile applies.
>>
>>         A “document interchange context” might well fully define a
>>         conforming subset definition, but it may or may not formally
>>         define a “profile” as defined in the recommendation.
>>
>>         An instance document would more likely declare its
>>         conformance by some other means, such as reference to a
>>         schema, or using xml-model, or simply by its context (e.g. a
>>         branded MP4 file).
>>
>>         When we get to overhauling the profile language, we should
>>         fix the above, minimally replacing “profile” with “conforming
>>         subset” or something more generic that does not imply a TTML
>>         Profile definition is required.
>>
>>         Actually, I think I do not agree with this. The point of the
>>         above cited language is to ensure that the applicable profile
>>         is well defined, since it is necessary to know the applicable
>>         profile in order to perform processing in a compliant manner.
>>
>>         As reference to a profile defined/specified by a document
>>         interchange context is intended to serve as a out-of-band
>>         protocol to allow determination of which profile applies. It
>>         does not mean that a ttp profile document must be available
>>         for either author or client, it means that the information
>>         that would be included in such a document is known is some
>>         manner, whether or not it is defined in a profile file.
>>
>>         Finally, the phrase "conforming subset" has no formal
>>         meaning/use in TTML at present other than indirectly through
>>         the use of profile definitions.
>>
>>
>
>
>     -- 
>     ------------------------------------------------
>     Andreas Tai
>     Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH
>     R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
>     Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany
>
>     Phone:+49 89 32399-389  <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-389>  | Fax:+49 89 32399-200  <tel:%2B49%2089%2032399-200>
>     http:www.irt.de  <http://www.irt.de>  | Email:tai@irt.de  <mailto:tai@irt.de>
>     ------------------------------------------------
>
>     registration court&   managing director:
>     Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191
>     Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns
>     ------------------------------------------------
>
>


-- 
------------------------------------------------
Andreas Tai
Production Systems Television IRT - Institut fuer Rundfunktechnik GmbH
R&D Institute of ARD, ZDF, DRadio, ORF and SRG/SSR
Floriansmuehlstrasse 60, D-80939 Munich, Germany

Phone: +49 89 32399-389 | Fax: +49 89 32399-200
http:www.irt.de  | Email:tai@irt.de
------------------------------------------------

registration court&   managing director:
Munich Commercial, RegNo. B 5191
Dr. Klaus Illgner-Fehns
------------------------------------------------
Received on Tuesday, 12 June 2012 15:23:43 UTC

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