- From: Joe Clark <joeclark@joeclark.org>
- Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:01:05 -0500
- To: TimedText <public-tt@w3.org>
>From: "Glenn A. Adams" <[13]glenn@xfsi.com>
>
>In a recent working document in SMPTE, these have been defined as follows:
>
>>Captions
>> Text that is a representation, often in the same language, of
>>dialog and audio events occurring during scenes of a motion
>>picture. (Generally associated with dialog and audio event
>>translation for the deaf and hard of hearing.)
>>
>>Subtitle[s]
>> Text that is a representation, in a different language, of
>>dialog occurring during scenes of a motion picture. Generally
>>associated with dialog translation for localization of a motion
>>picture in a particular territory.
And then:
>From: [13]Johnb@screen.subtitling.com
>
>Captioning is NOT always in the language of the program audio - for
>example in the UK it is perfectly feasible on DTT (digital
>terrestrial TV) to have English subtitles AND English captions (as
>separate user selections) for a Welsh language (audio) program.
Until rather recently, I was totally hardcore on the issue of
captions=transcription and subtitles=translation.
Then I started watching foreign DVDs. I own and have watched several
with heretofore-unseen combinations:
* Same-language subtitles (SLS; near-universal in English- and
French-language DVDs in North America).
Audience: Not entirely clear. For Asian markets in
particular, and in some European countries, apparently for viewers
with half-arsed fluency in English who kind of understand the
dialogue but need reinforcement. (Some of these people complain when
you caption a word like "Hello." They say "I know that word. You
don't have to write it.")
Other audience: Implicitly, deaf viewers, typically where the
studio is too cheap to provide actual captions using subpictures.
(It's possible to track the actual month in which U.S. studios
switched from English captions in subpictures to English SLS in
subpictures.)
Third audience: Hearing people watching a dubbed version with
English subtitles, an imaginable combo.
* Foreign-language subtitles as DVD subpictures.
Audience: Hearing viewers who don't understand the dialogue.
* English-language Line 21 closed captions based on the English
subtitle track (itself very different from the dubbing script) that
either do or do not include NSI (non-speech information).
Audience: When NSI is not included, I can't figure it out.
When it is included, deaf viewers.
Examples? Region 1 discs of _Amélie_, _Crouching Tiger, Hidden
Dragon_, _Run Lola Run_.
Other example? A unique one, in my experience? The music video »Feuer
Frei« by Rammstein, with German speech and English Line 21 captions
(by Captions, Inc.-- I have 'er on tape).
More? _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ with English-language
subtitles from _Henry IV, Part II_.
And another: Audience-participation subtitles in _The Rocky Horror
Picture Show_ ("Throw your RICE!").
So in fact, captions != transcription anymore, and subtitles !=
translation. Kray-zee, huh?
I'm liking this from Al Gilman:
>Candidate primitive terms in a Dublin Core sense in this application are
>
>- natural language (done)
>- language level [TBD -- education community in the lead -- ISO/IEC
>JTC1 SC36 LCFA]
>- kinds of sounds (speech, [other categories to be named -- effects?
>sonicons? wallpaper? action? -- Dublin Core -like process of
>intercommunity harmonization of concepts]
>- rough order of coverage [fragmentary, substantial, partial]
I love the Dublin Core concept, use it to excess, don't understand it
well, and wish I really understood what they're gonna talk about at
the DC-Accessibility conference/meeting
<http://dublincore.org/groups/access/>, which I can't even find a Web
link for.
>From: Charles Wiltgen <[13]lists@wiltgen.net>
> Subtitles
>
> - Intended for all viewers who speak a given language*
*Read*, I assume you mean. And not *all*: Deaf people would disagree
with the expectation that subtitles are intended for them.
> - Displayed by default for those viewers
Not on DVDs.
> - Includes dialog only
And not even all of it. _Talk to Her_ left an entire five-minute
diegetic music sequence unsubtitled, for example.
>This needs to be defined as part of the standard since content may
>include both subtitles and captioning (although they will generally
>be exclusive).
One or the other? Not on DVD.
--
Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org
Accessibility <http://joeclark.org/access/>
Weblogs and articles <http://joeclark.org/weblogs/>
<http://joeclark.org/writing/> | <http://fawny.org/>
Received on Thursday, 6 February 2003 09:03:22 UTC