- From: Joe Clark <joeclark@joeclark.org>
- Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 09:01:05 -0500
- To: TimedText <public-tt@w3.org>
>From: "Glenn A. Adams" <[13]glenn@xfsi.com> > >In a recent working document in SMPTE, these have been defined as follows: > >>Captions >> Text that is a representation, often in the same language, of >>dialog and audio events occurring during scenes of a motion >>picture. (Generally associated with dialog and audio event >>translation for the deaf and hard of hearing.) >> >>Subtitle[s] >> Text that is a representation, in a different language, of >>dialog occurring during scenes of a motion picture. Generally >>associated with dialog translation for localization of a motion >>picture in a particular territory. And then: >From: [13]Johnb@screen.subtitling.com > >Captioning is NOT always in the language of the program audio - for >example in the UK it is perfectly feasible on DTT (digital >terrestrial TV) to have English subtitles AND English captions (as >separate user selections) for a Welsh language (audio) program. Until rather recently, I was totally hardcore on the issue of captions=transcription and subtitles=translation. Then I started watching foreign DVDs. I own and have watched several with heretofore-unseen combinations: * Same-language subtitles (SLS; near-universal in English- and French-language DVDs in North America). Audience: Not entirely clear. For Asian markets in particular, and in some European countries, apparently for viewers with half-arsed fluency in English who kind of understand the dialogue but need reinforcement. (Some of these people complain when you caption a word like "Hello." They say "I know that word. You don't have to write it.") Other audience: Implicitly, deaf viewers, typically where the studio is too cheap to provide actual captions using subpictures. (It's possible to track the actual month in which U.S. studios switched from English captions in subpictures to English SLS in subpictures.) Third audience: Hearing people watching a dubbed version with English subtitles, an imaginable combo. * Foreign-language subtitles as DVD subpictures. Audience: Hearing viewers who don't understand the dialogue. * English-language Line 21 closed captions based on the English subtitle track (itself very different from the dubbing script) that either do or do not include NSI (non-speech information). Audience: When NSI is not included, I can't figure it out. When it is included, deaf viewers. Examples? Region 1 discs of _Amélie_, _Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon_, _Run Lola Run_. Other example? A unique one, in my experience? The music video »Feuer Frei« by Rammstein, with German speech and English Line 21 captions (by Captions, Inc.-- I have 'er on tape). More? _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ with English-language subtitles from _Henry IV, Part II_. And another: Audience-participation subtitles in _The Rocky Horror Picture Show_ ("Throw your RICE!"). So in fact, captions != transcription anymore, and subtitles != translation. Kray-zee, huh? I'm liking this from Al Gilman: >Candidate primitive terms in a Dublin Core sense in this application are > >- natural language (done) >- language level [TBD -- education community in the lead -- ISO/IEC >JTC1 SC36 LCFA] >- kinds of sounds (speech, [other categories to be named -- effects? >sonicons? wallpaper? action? -- Dublin Core -like process of >intercommunity harmonization of concepts] >- rough order of coverage [fragmentary, substantial, partial] I love the Dublin Core concept, use it to excess, don't understand it well, and wish I really understood what they're gonna talk about at the DC-Accessibility conference/meeting <http://dublincore.org/groups/access/>, which I can't even find a Web link for. >From: Charles Wiltgen <[13]lists@wiltgen.net> > Subtitles > > - Intended for all viewers who speak a given language* *Read*, I assume you mean. And not *all*: Deaf people would disagree with the expectation that subtitles are intended for them. > - Displayed by default for those viewers Not on DVDs. > - Includes dialog only And not even all of it. _Talk to Her_ left an entire five-minute diegetic music sequence unsubtitled, for example. >This needs to be defined as part of the standard since content may >include both subtitles and captioning (although they will generally >be exclusive). One or the other? Not on DVD. -- Joe Clark | joeclark@joeclark.org Accessibility <http://joeclark.org/access/> Weblogs and articles <http://joeclark.org/weblogs/> <http://joeclark.org/writing/> | <http://fawny.org/>
Received on Thursday, 6 February 2003 09:03:22 UTC