RE: Proposed version of the final TPE Note we plan to publish

I agree with Roy that the problem was not a lack of sites implementing DNT, 
there are several thousand, but think it is important to more fully record the 
factors that influenced the decision.

The proposed extensions would have made no sense without the JavaScript API 
anyway, and we should say that there is still measurable user demand for 
specifying a preference not to be tracked.

I suggest the following wording:


". in spite of the fact that 10s of millions of user agent instances continue 
to generate requests  containing the DNT header, there has not been sufficient 
willingness on the part of user agents to implement the JavaScript Consent 
API,  third parties and the ecosystem at large to change their behaviour on 
receiving the DNT header nor any indications of planned support among user 
agents for the  proposed extensions, to justify further advancement."

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: Roy T. Fielding <fielding@gbiv.com>
Sent: 26 October 2018 03:13
To: Matthias Schunter (Intel Corporation) <mts-std@schunter.org>
Cc: Jason A. Novak <jnovak@apple.com>; public-tracking@w3.org 
(public-tracking@w3.org) <public-tracking@w3.org>; Wendy Seltzer 
<wseltzer@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Proposed version of the final TPE Note we plan to publish

I think that will be fine, though in fact we had more than enough sites 
implementing to support advancement. That was never a high bar.

....Roy


> On Oct 25, 2018, at 12:40 AM, Matthias Schunter (Intel Corporation) 
> <mts-std@schunter.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
>
> I think that it is important to spell out the third parties and
> ecosystem since the "normal" sites are not the main bottleneck.
>
> I had a quick discussion with Jason and we suggest to add:
>
> ". there has not been sufficient willingness on the part of sites,
> third parties, and the ecosystem at large to adopt the specification
> nor any indications of planned support among user agents for the
> proposed extensions to justify further advancement."
>
> Any objections to this addition?
>
>
> Regards,
> matthias
>
>
>> Am 25.10.2018 um 08:57 schrieb Jason A. Novak:
>> I think that it would be valuable to add to the introductory note the
>> notion that Wendy highlighted, namely that in addition to a failure
>> of UAs implementing the extensions as defined, there was a failure of
>> sites to respond to the DNT signal in a meaningful way as well.
>>
>> I would propose incorporating Wendy's text
>>
>>>>>  "insufficient sites showed willingness to adopt the specification
>>>>> and user-agents discontinued development of implementations
>>
>> to the introduction as follows:
>>
>>    This Note is a final outcome of the standardization process by the
>>    Tracking Protection Working Group for the extensions to HTTP known
>>    variously as DNT, Do Not Track, or Tracking Protection Expression.
>>
>>    Since its last publication as a Candidate Recommendation, there has not
>>    been sufficient willingness on the part of sites to adopt the
>>    specification nor
>>    any indications of planned support among user agents for the
>>    extensions as
>>    defined to justify further advancement. The working group has therefore
>>    decided to conclude its work and republish the final product as this
>>    Note,
>>    with any future addendums to be published separately.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>> On Oct 25, 2018, at 8:35 AM, Matthias Schunter (Intel Corporation)
>>> <mts-std@schunter.org <mailto:mts-std@schunter.org>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Roy,
>>>
>>>
>>> thanks a lot for updating the draft. I am fine with the current version.
>>>
>>> Team: These are the three documents we plan to publish as Notes:
>>> 1. Roy's CR-converted-to-Note:
>>> https://w3c.github.io/dnt/drafts/tracking-dnt.html
>>> 2. Mike's Addenum:
>>> https://w3c.github.io/dnt/drafts/PurposesAddendumMinimised.html
>>> 3. I assume that our former compliance spec will continue to exist
>>> as a Note.
>>>
>>> Please send me any objections against publication of these drafts by
>>> end of October.
>>>
>>> Question (to W3C):
>>> - Will there be an archived "former TPWG" page that contains all our
>>> work documents or should they refer to each other?
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> matthias
>>>
>>> Am 25.10.2018 um 00:50 schrieb Roy T. Fielding:
>>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 3:07 AM, Wendy Seltzer <wseltzer@w3.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/24/2018 03:31 AM, Matthias Schunter (Intel Corporation) wrote:
>>>>>> Dear TPWG,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks to Roy who has converted the CR into a Note. The draft
>>>>>> Note can be found here:
>>>>>>  https://w3c.github.io/dnt/drafts/tracking-dnt.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We plan to publish this note along with the Addenum edited by Mike.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jeff Jaffe suggested we add some context to the note. David
>>>>>> Singer and I propose to add these two paragraphs to the Note:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This Note is the outcome of the standardization process by the
>>>>>>> Tracking Protection Working Group that resulted in publishing
>>>>>>> this text as a Candidate Recommendation on DATE.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> An insufficient number of W3C members was willing to implement
>>>>>>> this standard that offers enhanced privacy and transparency. Due
>>>>>>> to lack of support, the TPWG working group then decided at the
>>>>>>> W3C technical plenary on 2019-10-24 to close down. The former
>>>>>>> Candidate Recommendation was then republished as this Note.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's "insufficient sites showed willingness to adopt the
>>>>> specification and user-agents discontinued development of
>>>>> implementations" rather than specifically a lack of W3C members -- 
>>>>> non-member implementations are considered too.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> --Wendy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I tried inserting the text as is and it just made things worse.
>>>> After various attempts at cleaning it up into something that
>>>> non-wonks can understand, here is what I added to the SOTD:
>>>>
>>>>   This Note is a final outcome of the standardization process by the
>>>>   Tracking Protection Working Group for the extensions to HTTP known
>>>>   variously as DNT, Do Not Track, or Tracking Protection Expression.
>>>>
>>>>   Since its last publication as a Candidate Recommendation, there has not
>>>>   been sufficient deployment of these extensions (as defined) to justify
>>>>   further advancement, nor have there been any indications of planned
>>>>   support among browser implementations. The working group has therefore
>>>>   decided to conclude its work and republish the final product as this
>>>>   Note, with any future addendums to be published separately.
>>>>
>>>> However, this is small compared to all of the other front matter
>>>> and auto-generated information provided in the document.  Hence,
>>>> folks should view the actual document at
>>>>
>>>>   https://w3c.github.io/dnt/drafts/tracking-dnt.html
>>>>
>>>> to see it in context.  The W3Team might want to consider removing
>>>> or reducing some of that SOTD clutter when publishing it in TR
>>>> space (after a final fixed version is exported from the Respec draft).
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> ....Roy
>>>>
>>>
>>

Received on Friday, 26 October 2018 06:39:38 UTC