- From: Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com>
- Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2014 21:02:12 +0200
- To: Kathy Joe <kathy@esomar.org>
- Cc: Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org>, "Mike O'Neill" <michael.oneill@baycloud.com>, Justin Brookman <jbrookman@cdt.org>, Public-tracking Working Group <public-tracking@w3.org>
Dear Kathy, You carefully describe the datapoints as 'content accessed by a device' and refer to 'specific content'. This triggers the following two questions: (1) Are market, social and opinion research forms of audience measurement? (2) Could you please define the term audience? Regards, Rob Kathy Joe schreef op 2014-09-23 16:05: > Dear Rob, > > It would not be helpful to list the different technologies used/not > used by the various companies as detailed specifics may vary slightly > between each company and technologies will also change. > > However, we repeat that audience measurement, as described in our > submission for a permitted use, tracks the content accessed by a > device rather than involving the collection of a user’s browser > history. ie audience measurement is centered around specific content, > not around a user, and results are released as aggregated statistics. > > We also wish underline that the platform is still being developed, and > the objective is to enable users to opt out from data linked to their > device being collected for audience measurement and to respect > users’ choices. > > It is not designed as an elaborate method to work around or to deceive > users, which would be counter-productive for this initiative. > > With best regards > > Kathy > > On 19 Sep 2014, at 11:08, Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com> wrote: > > Dear Kathy, > > two follow up questions: > > 1. Could you please be more specific? "Similar technologies" indicates > a broad range, of which some are far from transparent to the user. > What other technologies are used besides cookies? Is JavaScripting > used? Is JavaScripting used to derive a fingerpring? Is passive > fingerprinting used? Please provide a complete list such that we can > weigh the chosen technologies againgst user transparency. > > 2. What does the Esopmar opt-out mean: (a) deleting any data right at > the point of collection, or (b) using the data in the analysis and > subsequent stages? Please inform the group such that we can weigh the > chosen technologies against user control. > > Rob > > Kathy Joe schreef op 2014-09-19 10:50: > >> Hi Rob, >> Initially it is based on cookies and similar technology although the >> undertaking that audience measurement must not have a detrimental >> impact on users is central to the sector’s codes and is technology >> neutral. >> The objective is that the platform should be capable of being >> developed to also offer users choice with regard to other >> technologies >> if they become common usage in audience measurement but we will need >> to take this on a step-by-step basis. >> Kathy Joe, >> Director, International Standards and Public Affairs >> On 18 Sep 2014, at 15:21, Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com> wrote: >> Hi Kathty, >> I have some follow up questions to better understand where this is >> heading: >> 1. Could you please confirm that the opt-out will be based on >> cookies? >> 2. Could you also please confirm that the opt-out will NOT be based >> on >> fingerprinting? >> 3. If fingerprinting is included in the technology, could you please >> indicate whether active or passive fingerprinting or both are used >> to >> determine an opt-out? >> Kind regards, >> Rob >> Kathy Joe schreef op 2014-09-18 15:06: >> Hi Jeff, >> As mentioned previously, the platform and site are still under >> development (now being beta-tested), so it would be premature to >> provide a detailed description of what is said on the site or how it >> looks, as the founding participants may well still seek some final >> amendments/refinements . >> The participating companies want this to demonstrate that they fully >> understand their responsibilities to users, and the platform will >> thus >> include an educational/informational element, clearly describing the >> purpose of research and of audience measurement, and provide an >> easy-to-understand indication of how to opt out from the latter. >> There will be a custom solution for opt-out that will have an >> intuitive design (it would be counter-productive for this not to be >> user friendly) and the solution will be compatible with a wide >> diversity of pre-existing research company-specific opt-out systems. >> A support desk function to respond to queries, monitor and enforce >> complaints is also foreseen. >> The platform has been designed to initially cover the audience >> measurement method as described in our submission including, but not >> limited to, those developed and audited by MRC - as most countries >> have their own joint body for audience measurement. >> Kathy Joe, >> Director, International Standards and Public Affairs >> Atlas Arena, 5th floor >> Hoogoorddreef 5 >> 1101 BA Amsterdam >> The Netherlands >> Tel: +31 20 664 2141 >> www.esomar.org [1] [1] [3] >> ESOMAR, the World Association for Social, Opinion and Market >> Research, >> is the essential organisation for encouraging, advancing and >> elevating >> market research worldwide. >> On 17 Sep 2014, at 18:14, Jeffrey Chester <jeff@democraticmedia.org> >> wrote: >> Kathy Joe: Please send to the list an explanation of the opt-out >> mechanism; whether it covers all basic industry digital measurement >> methods (such as developed by MRC, etc); and how the opt-out is >> being >> tested (methodology). This will help to inform our decision-making. >> Many thanks, >> Jeff >> Jeffrey Chester >> Center for Digital Democracy >> 1621 Connecticut Ave, NW, Suite 550 >> Washington, DC 20009 >> www.democraticmedia.org [2] [2] [4] >> www.digitalads.org [3] [3] [5] >> 202-986-2220 >> On Sep 17, 2014, at 11:59 AM, Kathy Joe <kathy@esomar.org> wrote: >> Hi Mike >> As you will have understood from our lengthy explanation of >> audience >> measurement, the online ecosphere, including public bodies and >> government broadcasters, depends on independent audience >> measurement. >> As we have therefore requested that audience measurement be a >> permitted use with a distinct purpose, we want to provide >> information to those users who are concerned, that the data is >> used >> as aggregated measurement statistics and will not have a >> detrimental >> impact on a user, so they can make an educated choice about opting >> out. Kathy Joe >> ESOMAR, the World Association for Social, Opinion and Market >> Research, is the essential organisation for encouraging, advancing >> and elevating market research worldwide. >> On 17 Sep 2014, at 16:44, Mike O'Neill >> <michael.oneill@baycloud.com> >> wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> Hi Kathy, >> Wire not just use DNT:1? Why invent another signal when an >> adequate >> alternative exists (which we have all been working on)? It is more >> likely to get the seal of approval in EU also. >> Mike >> From: Kathy Joe [mailto:kathy@esomar.org] >> Sent: 17 September 2014 15:38 >> To: rob@blaeu.com >> Cc: Justin Brookman; Public-tracking Working Group >> Subject: Re: Audience Measurement Permitted Use (ISSUE-25) >> Dear Rob, >> A beta test version of the opt-out system that we proposed last >> year >> is being developed and will be launched soon. >> Kathy Joe, >> Director, International Standards and Public Affairs >> ESOMAR, the World Association for Social, Opinion and Market >> Research, is the essential organisation for encouraging, advancing >> and elevating market research worldwide. >> On 12 Sep 2014, at 20:47, Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com> wrote: >> Justin, >> The current audience measurement text is not fit for purpose at >> all: >> - - Changing the text to align it with the rest of the TCM would >> go >> beyond editorial changes. >> - - The opt-out platform that is described in the proposal is not >> implemented. No timeline has been given, so after 1,5 year the >> audience measurement industry hasn't shown any tangible results. >> Rob >> Justin Brookman schreef op 2014-09-12 16:46: >> I asked ESOMAR whether they wanted to revise their proposal; they >> declined. However, I don’t think the definition of tracking >> changes >> anything — Audience Measurement is offered as a “permitted >> use”; >> permitted uses contemplate behavior that is in fact tracking, but >> is >> allowed nonetheless under a compliance regime as something that is >> functionally necessary to make the web work (such as fraud >> prevention >> and attribution). >> On Sep 12, 2014, at 7:07 AM, Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com> wrote: >> Two more issues that I think need to be addressed: >> 1. The Esomar proposal does not align with the current definition >> of >> tracking. A permitted use would allow measurement of individual >> users across different contexts. The porposal is from June 2013 >> and >> needs to be updated in the light of all definitions and >> discussions >> that took place since then. >> 2. In addition, a 'no sharing' requirement should move to a >> generic >> requirement for all permitted uses (3.3.1 General Requirements for >> Permitted Uses). >> Rob >> Rob van Eijk schreef op 2014-09-12 12:42: >> Dear Justin, >> The Esomar proposal does not align with where we are with the term >> permanently deidentified and uses confusing terms as pseudonymised >> and >> de-identified and de-identification. The proposal needs to be >> updated >> in the light of the outcome of ISSUE-188 before moving forward. >> Rob >> Justin Brookman schreef op 2014-09-11 20:26: >> The precise rules for audience measurement are contained in the >> ESOMAR >> proposal. > > http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Audience_Measurement#Audience_Measurement_Permitted_Use > [4] > >> [4] >> >>> [1] >>> [1] >>> There will be an option for no audience measurement permitted use >>> as >>> well. >>> Lee Tien from EFF has previously proposed letting companies retain >>> protocol information for two weeks for audience measurement; I >>> have >>> separately reached out to him to ask whether he wants that to be >>> included as an option as well. >>> On Sep 11, 2014, at 1:41 PM, Rob van Eijk <rob@blaeu.com> wrote: >>> We also need to talk about the concept of audience. I feel we need >>> to discuss what this means. At the moment, the concept means >>> different things in different markets. >>> Perhaps we need a new issue to hash this out. >>> Rob >>> Rob van Eijk schreef op 2014-09-11 18:02: >>> The problem with audience measurement has been that it does not >>> provide an opt-out. >>> Add a permitted use under DNT leaves users empty handed. >>> For me a permitted use is therefore, how carefully crafted it may >>> be, >>> at the moment a bridge too far. >>> I therefore respectfully reqeust a if we get to a CFO on this >>> issue, >>> to include an option to NOT include a permitted use for audience >>> measurement. >>> If new arguments for strengthening the user's position exist, e.g. >>> an >>> innovative opt-out system, please put those forward, so that we >>> can >>> discuss these. >>> Rob >>> Shane M Wiley schreef op 2014-09-11 12:39: >>> We should agree to disagree then as the same statement could be >>> added >>> to every single provision of the document. Wasteful... >>> - - Shane >>> - -----Original Message----- >>> From: Walter van Holst [mailto:walter.van.holst@xs4all.nl] >>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2014 3:34 AM >>> To: public-tracking@w3.org >>> Subject: RE: Audience Measurement Permitted Use (ISSUE-25) >>> On 2014-09-11 12:20, Shane M Wiley wrote: >>> I believe we already have a broad statement (which some believe is >>> unnecessary) that states nothing in the TCS is meant to contradict >>> local laws. Adding another non-normative statement to this FACT is >>> wasteful and unnecessary. >>> I disagree. We have such a broad statement since the group has >>> chosen >>> not to harmonise at the level of protection of the vast majority >>> of >>> the industrialised world as well since it is not feasible to check >>> every bit of the compliance specification with every jurisdiction >>> on >>> the planet. >>> Having that statement does not take away from the utility of >>> pointing >>> out that a specific permitted use is not a permitted use in the >>> context of the jurisdiction of one of the largest economies when >>> we >>> already know it doesn't. That is not wasteful, that is helpful. >>> Regards, >>> Walter >>> Links: >>> - ------ >>> [1] > > http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Audience_Measurement#Audience_Measurement_Permitted_Use > >>> [1] >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.13 (MingW32) >>> Comment: Using gpg4o v3.3.26.5094 - http://www.gpg4o.com/ [2] >>> Charset: utf-8 >>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUGZ5CAAoJEHMxUy4uXm2JNLQIAJb5uI3Cd9eZ95K2a2a9y2pN >>> 78kRLIKmDIkqUgv/4heckvz9RP2aU5nc0ft4+STeqtUktkVaEgJRIE34/2ASspSU >>> nb/Gy0aihBcLqX3amCdFMgJNqvwVJkOksOrQwdNfWFd718wHV3wgQJvGHzVDQzb8 >>> ZCIq3N5OCd3r2lCodxXc0EvaZKLBhBFkJBlnDKpwycjDWTJWoF4PvyaLjdrGkXRW >>> eRBGaGl2bunvrUqhePj3/LFmYWa/biigRZRjSHuQZemK8Pgmcb1Gj/jv7Nh3S+rg >>> HmNPpMNi7MjnR2TtShQlxhitODShWdnomhGWPIi71rvTkZicTjxcjfJLKZgCnqI= >>> =BVc1 >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> <PGPexch.htm><PGPexch.htm.sig> >> Links: >> ------ >> [1] > > http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Audience_Measurement#Audience_Measurement_Permitted_Use > >> [2] http://www.gpg4o.com/ >> [3] http://www.esomar.org/ >> [4] http://www.democraticmedia.org/ >> [5] http://www.digitalads.org/ > Links: > ------ > [1] http://www.esomar.org > [2] http://www.democraticmedia.org > [3] http://www.digitalads.org > [4] > http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Audience_Measurement#Audience_Measurement_Permitted_Use > > > > Links: > ------ > [1] http://www.esomar.org > [2] http://www.democraticmedia.org > [3] http://www.digitalads.org > [4] > http://www.w3.org/wiki/Privacy/TPWG/Change_Proposal_Audience_Measurement#Audience_Measurement_Permitted_Use
Received on Tuesday, 23 September 2014 19:03:17 UTC