- From: Mike O'Neill <michael.oneill@baycloud.com>
- Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2014 14:22:23 +0100
- To: "'Vinay Goel'" <vigoel@adobe.com>, "'Nicholas Doty'" <npdoty@w3.org>
- Cc: "'David Singer'" <singer@apple.com>, "'Roy T. Fielding'" <fielding@gbiv.com>, "'Tracking Protection Working Group'" <public-tracking@w3.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Vinay, Expiry is implied in the Directives (not just e-privacy) and specifically called for by WP29 Opinions. At least one major DPA requires it I know of. The e-privacy Directive is technology agnostic, not just http cookies but any kind of storage use. I did ask for symmetric API to be considered, but did not get any support. Maybe we can get into that if we ever have DNT2.0 Mike > -----Original Message----- > From: Vinay Goel [mailto:vigoel@adobe.com] > Sent: 15 October 2014 13:58 > To: Mike O'Neill; 'Nicholas Doty' > Cc: 'David Singer'; 'Roy T. Fielding'; 'Tracking Protection Working Group' > Subject: Re: tracking-ISSUE-266: automatic expiration of a tracking preference > exception via API parameter [TPE Last Call] > > Hi Mike, > > I believe only one country has explicitly included expiry requirements in > its regulatory guidance. That is far from the norm across the world; and > that consent is limited to cookies and not to uses of personal > information. Besides, exploring a UGC for only UGCs seems one-sided to > me. There are other preferences (like the user¹s DNT preference). Should > that too be confirmed every so often or it expires? > > -Vinay > > On 10/15/14, 5:36 AM, "Mike O'Neill" <michael.oneill@baycloud.com> wrote: > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >Hash: SHA1 > > > >Nick, the web-wide use case refers to the usual way tracking is > >implemented, using 1x1 gif images, JS library & CSS loading, object tag > >rendering etc. The case where tracking is done using an iframe is > >relatively rare. > > > >In the EU there is legislative backing and regulatory requirement for > >expiry and therefore the use case will represent the norm. > > > >On the site-wide case, as I said to David, the transparency issue arises. > > > >There is no point in de-coupling them because UA implementation is easier > >if it is done for both, and we would not have to derive another property > >bag for the web-wide case. Even if you are not swayed by the > >transparency argument it does not harm to have site-specific expiry if we > >are already doing it for web-wide. > > > >Mike > > > > > >From: Nicholas Doty [mailto:npdoty@w3.org] > >Sent: 15 October 2014 03:22 > >To: Mike O'Neill > >Cc: David Singer; Roy T. Fielding; Tracking Protection Working Group > >Subject: Re: tracking-ISSUE-266: automatic expiration of a tracking > >preference exception via API parameter [TPE Last Call] > > > >gpg4o > > Unknown Signature from 40203EE90BBAB306 1 2 01 1413339731 9 > > > > On October 14, 2014, at 12:59 PM, Mike O'Neill > ><michael.oneill@baycloud.com> wrote: > > > >Signed PGP part > >> But Mike, think of the two cases. > >> > >> 1) Site-wide. The first party that requested it *is* the site the user > >>visited. No > >> problem here. > > > >There is still the transparency problem I mentioned. The UA has no way to > >tell users about the expiry of UGEs, while it is normal to report it for > >cookies. > > > >UAs should be able to help users understand when and to whom they gave > >consent (and see if it was forced on them without their knowledge). > >If no explanationString and siteName there is less for UAs to report on > >about the actual API event (they could show info from WHOIS lookups or > >X.509 certs instead). Any time to expiry of the UGE would help keep the > >user informed. > > > >I tend to agree with David that the site-wide doesn't seem like a > >problem. The storeSiteSpecificTrackingException is designed for the use > >case where the *site* takes the burden of explaining the conditions of > >the exception request and then only stores the exception in the UA. The > >UA will never be able to give full details on the consent -- that's up to > >the site. When the site assumes the consent will expire seems like an > >example of a detail of consent that we don't expect the UA to manage. > > > >And because the site also typically has JavaScript access, it can remove > >the exception when an expiration has taken place, or when some change in > >the user's logged-in account happens, or on any other condition they > >choose. > > > >> 2) Web-wide. True, if all you load is a tracking pixel or other > >>non-scripted > >> resource, you cannot confirm the exception. But if the user never > >>visits your > >> main site, *should* you be maintaining or reconfirming the exception? > >> > >> > In my use case re-conformation is impossible. DNT will always be zero > >> (because it will not be cancelled) , and the cookie is not there either > >>a) it has > >> expired or b) it was purged or c) it was never placed (the DNT:0 > >>signalled a > >> general preference). > >> > >> OK, so it¹s true that if you use cookies to expire, and a DNT:0 is > >>received without > >> the cookie, you cannot tell if that¹s because the cookie has expired > >>(so DNT:0 is > >> now questionable) or because the user has set a DNT:0 general > >>preference. And > >> setting another cookie that has a different expiry doesn¹t solve it, > >>either, > >> because if the user deletes cookies, you¹ll lose that as well. > >> > >> This *is* a problem. > > > >I can see the potential problem for Web-wide exceptions, for parties that > >want automatic expiration, and do their tracking through non-JavaScript > >means and either want the exception to persist beyond clearing of cookies > >or want to distinguish between general DNT:0 and specific-but-expired > >Web-wide exceptions. > > > >We could implement expiration parameters to cover this use case, but this > >is also a very specific set of conditions and I'm not aware of any > >implementers in that situation. > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > >Version: GnuPG v1.4.13 (MingW32) > >Comment: Using gpg4o v3.3.26.5094 - http://www.gpg4o.com/ > >Charset: utf-8 > > > >iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUPkAhAAoJEHMxUy4uXm2JAfIH/1+laR+3cMkJGu3f6WvHsc > 08 > >z8vqQl5zkpX/qMnKgQgXKF4d3GMLpe5XtNQx2YvXF3lv/eudOrN29qNV+iz0GLb3 > >p0OsVsXz2TcV4Z/DGm4xvoV3EoPj/4UkGysBvAhmuwv2An0/hEuNE0Stj1HfTT2 > w > >e1BNbwD4J629byaoeL0MvHDL6vOufuzy3ULdSBGdtLbvE4rnDYBhjaMaXFiRIK+5 > >6qbh0VY+ODKromf4yVouggqIGwKvR8x6CpvE/yGzfhKSX+3KvQ2JHCjola302kvn > >QviDUrlNFvHvAzY2bpLaeK7/cdd206Fhg+IJ5DfEvVVNC354BZOPKgQciSjJcBA= > >=iA1n > >-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.13 (MingW32) Comment: Using gpg4o v3.3.26.5094 - http://www.gpg4o.com/ Charset: utf-8 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJUPnUOAAoJEHMxUy4uXm2JFcUH/jSnZQsiu+wXpL1+siQHH2U6 pwitj9NC+g/DIQTnK8wvkccWqQp9J0QwvNWjF6dqoENpqIG9cIJpcbq5ckyUrveA Voj8utqXzpaM7YzNHAmzJAWa/F8UvqrTbnv1NDMYPr9SSgTysn6dxUjeZyTzTGiT NwlqC/4ByWiUZZ9MI9+o4nLXCWOKG9c2VicGEhvbHR1jJIOD8ezpGi/VraBjKPhF PCJvY8HgoNqeCE0Y9U5PZbZqX8WmnKaoq9/I3soUD7DqmAFyTcAuu0UL0aOaKYOt U1a4sbuE9AQ665W2dE+ianUwLGVKrWjY3Q8gCXMLMjbrpE3z8EBwZ6/9ui7l1X0= =qGEa -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Received on Wednesday, 15 October 2014 13:23:26 UTC