Re: Scrolling as overlap avoidance (Re: Alternative approach to scrolling, with demos)

This kind of background handling is definitely needed, and a background
stretching across the entire width would be unacceptable. Captions with
background are a prevalent preference among consumers.

Christian


On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid <
lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:

> This is a good point. The background would extend across the entire width.
> Philip,  supporting auto as a cue width would address this. Is that a
> possibility?
>
>
> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 10:25 AM, Christian Vogler <
> christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>
>> Just checking here, what does this mean for text background? Say, you
>> have white text on black background - will the black extend only to the
>> width of the actual text plus padding?
>>
>> Christian
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <philipj@opera.com>wrote:
>>
>>> The auto width was discussed for regions, for a single cue I think one
>>> should simply make the cue box as big as it can be. That is in fact
>>> the default size, 100%.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>>
>>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid
>>> <lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>>> > Yes, an option for "auto" width would allow this. Philip and Silvia,
>>> is that
>>> > still on the table?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Christian Vogler
>>> > <christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> For this kind of situation, line wrapping should be considered only
>>> as a
>>> >> method of last resort. If possible, growing the cue to the left,
>>> right, or
>>> >> both, would in most cases be preferable. Especially if a line wrap
>>> breaks up
>>> >> a single word.
>>> >>
>>> >> Christian
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent from my mobile phone.  Please excuse any touchscreen-induced
>>> >> weirdness.
>>> >>
>>> >> On May 8, 2014 10:09 AM, "Philip Jägenstedt" <philipj@opera.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Thanks for digging that up, Loretta!
>>> >>>
>>> >>> In this example, there are single cues which are positioned, not
>>> >>> groups of cues, so I don't think regions should be required to
>>> achieve
>>> >>> the same result.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> With pre-regions WebVTT this could be reproduced by using the align
>>> >>> setting and a suitably positioned cue box, it seems.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Note that lineAlign:bottom only controls the alignment of the first
>>> >>> line, so if a cue wraps then lineAlign can't be used to provide an
>>> >>> anchor point for the cue as a whole, in particular you couldn't use
>>> it
>>> >>> to avoid overlapping text just below the cue.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I'm guessing that for speaking identification you'll place the cue
>>> >>> either above or below the speaker. Would a way to control the
>>> >>> direction in which the cue grows when the font size increases or
>>> lines
>>> >>> wraps be sufficient?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Philip
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 3:24 PM, Loretta Guarino Reid
>>> >>> <lorettaguarino@google.com> wrote:
>>> >>> > (Still trying to find non-pay examples of interesting placement...)
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > Here is one, although the visual motivation for this particular
>>> >>> > placement
>>> >>> > isn't clear:
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR1PO6zH60c#t=1m53s
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > The positioned captions occur at 2:09
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> >
>>> >>> > On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 6:18 AM, Philip Jägenstedt <
>>> philipj@opera.com>
>>> >>> > wrote:
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> [I accidentally sent this reply off-list two days ago.]
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> In the CPC demo, simple left and right alignment is used to
>>> follow the
>>> >>> >> speaker:
>>> >>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbqPe-IceP4
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> Do you have an example where something more fancy than this is
>>> used?
>>> >>> >> Note that just by using the position, size and align setting you
>>> can
>>> >>> >> do fancier things, but an example would help determine if that's
>>> >>> >> enough or not.
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 6:31 PM, Christian Vogler
>>> >>> >> <christian.vogler@gallaudet.edu> wrote:
>>> >>> >> > To me, positioning for speaker identification makes the most
>>> sense
>>> >>> >> > in
>>> >>> >> > terms
>>> >>> >> > of the anchor point - this point is the target for each speaker.
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > Christian
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:27 PM, David Singer <singer@apple.com
>>> >
>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> On May 5, 2014, at 5:00 , Philip Jägenstedt <philipj@opera.com
>>> >
>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> >> (2) the background color on the width and height of the
>>> rollup
>>> >>> >> >> >> area
>>> >>> >> >> >> needs to be changeable
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> > Why? As I noted in the "background box tweaking" thread
>>> that's
>>> >>> >> >> > still
>>> >>> >> >> > possible with the sum of my suggestions, but I don't
>>> understand
>>> >>> >> >> > what
>>> >>> >> >> > the use case is.
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> >> (4) move all the cues in the region as a group to another
>>> >>> >> >> >> location
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> > This is also not handled by the current spec. I don't think
>>> it
>>> >>> >> >> > makes
>>> >>> >> >> > sense either, why not just end the cues and repeat them in a
>>> new
>>> >>> >> >> > position?
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> I agree for these that if you want something ‘similar’ to
>>> appear as
>>> >>> >> >> what’s
>>> >>> >> >> already there, the clean thing to do is to re-draw it.  Same
>>> >>> >> >> content
>>> >>> >> >> but in
>>> >>> >> >> a different region (with different position or colors), and so
>>> on.
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> >> (3) font size changes on the region need to make the region
>>> go
>>> >>> >> >> >> bigger
>>> >>> >> >> >> centered out from the anchor point
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> > That's not handled by the current spec. We've talked about
>>> using
>>> >>> >> >> > font-relative units but that hasn't happened. I'd love to
>>> >>> >> >> > understand
>>> >>> >> >> > the use case for this though. Do you have an example video
>>> frame
>>> >>> >> >> > where
>>> >>> >> >> > scaling around an anchor point is necessary as opposed to
>>> mode of
>>> >>> >> >> > scaling that happens with classical WebVTT?
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >> >
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> I also am curious
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >> David Singer
>>> >>> >> >> Manager, Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >>
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> >
>>> >>> >> > --
>>> >>> >> > Christian Vogler, PhD
>>> >>> >> > Director, Technology Access Program
>>> >>> >> > Department of Communication Studies
>>> >>> >> > SLCC 1116
>>> >>> >> > Gallaudet University
>>> >>> >> > http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
>>> >>> >> > VP: 202-250-2795
>>> >>> >>
>>> >>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Christian Vogler, PhD
>> Director, Technology Access Program
>> Department of Communication Studies
>> SLCC 1116
>> Gallaudet University
>> http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
>> VP: 202-250-2795
>>
>
>


-- 
Christian Vogler, PhD
Director, Technology Access Program
Department of Communication Studies
SLCC 1116
Gallaudet University
http://tap.gallaudet.edu/
VP: 202-250-2795