Re: [blink-dev] WebVTT vs TTML Features

roll-up captions are extremely prevalent on America television - they are
the standard for all live captioned shows, and are used extensively for
late-delivered pre-recorded programs where  captioner is authoring the
captions "live" while listening to a contribution feed of the program from
a production facility to a distribution facility.

the nature of roll-up captions is such that they are actually easier to
read when rendered with characters painting on left-to-right and lines
smoothly scrolling up. this style helps your eye follow the text more
easily, and is important since the captions are not being chunked up into
phrases that work well with pop-ons.

frankly, i continue to be disappointed with the web community's dismissal
of the prevalence and importance of roll-up captions in the television
world.









On 12/12/13 9:45 AM, "Gal Klein" <gal@plymedia.com> wrote:

>Why will you prefer a roll-up over pop-ons ???
>All On-Demand videos are pop-ons and roll-up were just a constraint of the
>past - not a good solution if you ask anyone who actually uses the
>captions.
>I fail to see the reasoning, just keeping things AS THEY WERE is not a
>good
>choice...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Goldstein, Glenn [mailto:glenn.goldstein@viacom.com]
>Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 4:32 PM
>To: Nigel Megitt; David Singer; Andreas Tai
>Cc: Silvia Pfieffer; Glenn Adams; Victor Cărbune; Silvia Pfeiffer;
>public-texttracks@w3.org
>Subject: Re: [blink-dev] WebVTT vs TTML Features
>
>i'll chime in for Viacom here - TTML is widely used.
>
>We have thousands of TTML files here, used for closed captioning and
>subtitling across dozens of web sites and mobile applications. For closed
>captioning, our native authoring format continues to be 608/708, and our
>architecture accommodates a conversion step to a format such as TTML or
>webVTT.
>
>The big issue for us is that the conversion from 608/708 to TTML or webVTT
>be as lossless as possible, faithfully preserving positioning and roll-up
>styles from the original authored captions. from what i've seen, TTML and
>webVTT are both doing this pretty well now with the exception of roll-up
>support. i hope/assume that both webVTT and TTML renderers will begin to
>support roll-ups soon, as it is the standard for live captioned programs.
>
>
>Glenn Goldstein
>Chief Technology Convergence Officer
>Tel: (212) 846-3210
>Email: glenn.goldstein@viacom.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On 12/12/13 5:48 AM, "Nigel Megitt" <nigel.megitt@bbc.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On 11/12/2013 22:11, "David Singer" <singer@apple.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Andreas,
>>>
>>>thanks for the thoughtful points.
>>>
>>>On Dec 11, 2013, at 8:52 , Andreas Tai <tai@irt.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The decision to build upon SRT instead of  TTML and the reasons that
>>>>led to this decision have to be respected. But it seems not correct
>>>>to me now to deny that TTML is a rendering format for "web
>>>>distribution of captions" and ignore the fact that it is widely used
>>>>for
>this purpose.
>>>>It was used before WebVTT reached a stable status. This fact seems
>>>>not to be well known and it is often mistrusted so indeed a list
>>>>which content providers already use TTML would make this more
>transparent.
>>>>
>>>> It seems like an irony of the story that the format that were added
>>>>at a later stage for the same purpose makes a claim to be the only
>>>>legitimate candidate for that purpose.
>>>
>>>I think actions or words that attempt to denigrate, pigeonhole,
>>>spindle, fold, or mutilate [1] either format are not helpful.  We need
>>>to focus our energies on what we care about most: making multimedia
>>>web content accessible.
>>
>>Agreed - and we need to recognise the sensitivities and try to avoid
>>actions or words that could be interpreted as being derogatory even if
>>they're not intended as such.
>>
>>As we've seen, we may need to be more explicit about exactly what we
>>mean than we'd normally be while we're collectively developing a common
>>understanding and developing accepted shorthands or jargon.
>>
>>>>We have two W3C rendering formats for captions on the web. This is
>>>>not a pleasant situation. But we have to cope with it. The new
>>>>development to combine both efforts in one group is a good, pragmatic
>>>>start. It can work out if on both sides co-existence on the same field
>>>>is
>accepted.
>>>
>>>Completely agree.
>>
>>Likewise.
>>
>>Nigel
>>
>>
>>>
>>>[1]
>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Not_Fold,_Spindle_or_Mutilate#cite_not

>>>e-1
>>>
>>>
>>>David Singer
>>>Multimedia and Software Standards, Apple Inc.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>

Received on Thursday, 12 December 2013 14:47:19 UTC