Re: Minutes of the W3C CG meeting of 25th Jan

Giulia – as an international organization, the W3C should be focused on developing and fostering standards that support the needs of ALL countries around the world, not only those of a single one.  While we could certainly debate which solution better aligns with the EU DSM Directives for Text and Data Mining, many other countries have other requirements that need to be considered as well. That may be why the US, UK, AU, China and others have focused on C2PA as the technology of choice for identification of material sourced from a generative AI system, and specification of whether one can use that asset for training.

In addition, as mentioned the PDF industry (as driven by the PDF Association – pdfa.org – and ISO TC 171/SC 2) has already chosen to align with C2PA and implementations from Adobe and others are already in the field.  In addition, since the same solution/technology is also in use by numerous systems around the world for images and videos, it makes sense to land on a single choice for all media types.

There is no question that the work of this CG was instrumental in moving the industry to understand the problem space and the importance of addressing it – in fact, it certainly helped me to design the solution present in the C2PA specification.  However, the actual technical solution hasn’t received the industry support while others have.  It happens in the world of standards…

Leonard

From: Giulia Marangoni <giulia.marangoni@aie.it>
Date: Thursday, February 22, 2024 at 11:42 AM
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>, public-tdmrep@w3.org <public-tdmrep@w3.org>
Subject: R: Minutes of the W3C CG meeting of 25th Jan

EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.



Dear Leonard,



We are aware of the C2PA specifications. Unfortunately, as discussed in our previous exchanges, we do not believe they currently meet some of the core requirements that underpins the TDMRep initiative, such as compliance with the conditions of Article 4 of the EU DSM Directive on Text and Data Mining.



As you know, the DSM Directive introduces an exception for text and data mining which is relevant in the context of AI. Consistently, as confirmed by the EU Commission, text and data mining processes are understood to cover AI training and the TDMRep Protocol is following this assumption to ensure legal compliance. This approach has recently been confirmed by the EU AI Act, which requires AI providers to actively identify and respect TDM opt-outs, as defined by the DSM Directive, when training an AI system. It also clarifies that any AI made available on the EU market would have to comply with its rules, including on copyright, regardless of where the AI was trained (making opt out rules not only relevant in Europe but beyond).



Besides, it is worth considering that the TDMRep is intended to be a "format agnostic" solution, meaning that the same mechanism will be applied to different content formats, such as web, EPUB and PDF. This makes the TDMRep a horizontal solution across different formats - including but not limited to PDFs - developed in response to the needs expressed by the wider publishing sector, and not only by STM. Similarly, the TDMRep could be adapted to further formats, including beyond text, should the relevant industries express such needs.



As anticipated in the minutes, the draft specifications for embedding TDMRep in PDF are in progress and will be circulated and discussed at the next meeting of the W3C Community group as soon as ready. As far as we currently understand, the specifications to embed TDMRep in PDF do not create a technical issue that would prevent a PDF file from working as intended or that would make the opt out impossible to detect. We will of course welcome your views and demonstration, once the specifications are ready and circulated, should you believe that it would “break” a PDF file.



Furthermore, it seems that the V2.0 of this specification deprecates the "Training and Data Mining" properties previously defined in the V.1.3.  Could you please point us at the new way of expressing tdm opt-out in C2PA?



Hope this clarifies,


Giulia

Da: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Inviato: lunedì 19 febbraio 2024 04:12
A: Giulia Marangoni <giulia.marangoni@aie.it>; public-tdmrep@w3.org
Oggetto: Re: Minutes of the W3C CG meeting of 25th Jan

Is there a link to this “TDM in PDF” proposal?

I am concerned about this direction, given that the PDF industry (through the PDF Association & ISO) have put their weight behind the use of C2PA’s Content Credentials for identification of Generative AI usage, declaration of training and data mining permissions, etc.  It would be a shame for a specific vertical industry such as STM go in a different direction that will not be supported by standard PDF processing systems.

Leonard

From: Giulia Marangoni <giulia.marangoni@aie.it<mailto:giulia.marangoni@aie.it>>
Date: Monday, February 12, 2024 at 6:14 PM
To: public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org> <public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org>>
Subject: Minutes of the W3C CG meeting of 25th Jan

EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


Dear members of the W3C CG TDM Reservation Protocol,

Please find below the minutes of our last meeting, including specifications for embedding the TDMRep in EPUB metadata.

Specifications for embedding the TDM reservation protocol in EPUB metadata
Laurent Le Meur presented the draft specifications for embedding the TDM reservation protocol in EPUB metadata that have been finalized on the basis the feedback from group members.
The specifications have been approved by the group members and are now available online as part of the TDM Reservation protocol final Community Group report: https://www.w3.org/community/reports/tdmrep/CG-FINAL-tdmrep-20240202/

(Please note that the previous version of the final report, available at https://www.w3.org/community/reports/tdmrep/CG-FINAL-tdmrep-20220216/  will redirect to the new one. Due to a temporary problem the redirection mechanism is not active yet).

TDM adopters – call for updates
Members have been invited to update the group as soon as they know about new adopters of the protocol. The list of TDMRep adopters is available here<mailto:https://github.com/w3c/tdm-reservation-protocol/blob/main/docs/adopters.md> and will be updated regularly. It has been suggested to enhance the list by including links to examples of the TDM policies implemented, as a useful benchmark and as helpful tool for newcomers and potential implementers.
New use case: embedding TDM protocol in PDF metadata
IJsbrand Jan Aalbersberg, (Elsevier, Chair of the STM STeC), Mitchell Bakos (ACS), and Björn Myoshi (Springer Nature) updated the group on the work undertaken by the STM Article 4 Working Group, and its analysis of various approaches to content protection and licensing in the context of AI, including the TDM protocol, which will be included among the recommended solutions by STM to its members.
They presented the STM implementation of the JSON policy file; the policy allows to specify that mining for purposes under the art.3 of the DSM directive are allowed, while for any other purpose the rightsholder’s consent is requested.
They also introduced another use case for the TDM protocol with high priority for STM sector: embedding the TDM rights reservation in PDF metadata; draft specifications have been presented and discussed with the group.
Laurent Le Meur proposed some minor revisions to the syntax in order to ensure consistency with the tag name used for the EPUB use case.

It was agreed that Laurent will explore the possibility to create a page within the W3C domain featuring the tdm namespace and all relevant metadata elements used by the TDM protocol and JSON policy; definitions will be created in close cooperation with the STM WG.
Moreover, the TDMRep specifications (available online in the Final Report of the CG) will be updated with new examples on priority rules for AI Actors in case rights reservation is expressed both at website and content item levels (in EPUB and PDF files).

In the next weeks, the STM WG will work at the finalization of draft specifications for embedding TDMRep in PDF; afterwards, a consolidated version will be shared with the TDMRep CG for final discussion and approval.

Next steps of the W3C CG
The members started a discussion on possible next steps for the TDM protocol to become a formal standard; in the meanwhile, they agreed to keep on promoting its adoption by the industry.


Giulia Marangoni
Ufficio rapporti istituzionali e legislativo
[cid:image001.jpg@01DA65B6.78F2EB10]
AIE – Associazione Italiana Editori
Corso di Porta Romana n.108
20122 Milan, Italy
Tel. +390289280828
giulia.marangoni@aie.it<mailto:giulia.marangoni@aie.it>

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