R: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

Dear Duncan,
I confirm that we are in touch with STM representatives and some of them will attend the meeting on the 4th.
I can also confirm that FEP is in touch with Giorello’s office, who have been kept updated on the progress of our CG since the start and that Quentin is going to ask for their view on this topic once he’ll be back from holidays.
Very good to know about the UK IPO approach to TDM/AI, I think that is an argument we can take into account.
Best
Giulia

Da: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Inviato: lunedì 27 marzo 2023 19:39
A: Campbell, Duncan <dcampbell@wiley.com>; Quentin Deschandelliers <qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu>; TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group <team-community-process@w3.org>; public-tdmrep@w3.org
Oggetto: Re: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

Duncan – it is certainly true that someone may wish to exclude any/all forms of analysis.   But at the same time, there are many use cases where only a subset of the types of analysis would be restricted.  It also depends on the type of content/assets involved.  For example, your statements on images may differ from text publications.

Leonard

From: Campbell, Duncan <dcampbell@wiley.com<mailto:dcampbell@wiley.com>>
Date: Monday, March 27, 2023 at 12:30 PM
To: Quentin Deschandelliers <qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu<mailto:qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu>>, TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group <team-community-process@w3.org<mailto:team-community-process@w3.org>>, public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org> <public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org>>
Subject: RE: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]
EXTERNAL: Use caution when clicking on links or opening attachments.


My apologies as well - I will also be on vacation next week. Can we get someone from Marco Giorello's copyright unit at the commission to discuss their views on this?

I would say 'yes' to question 1 below - all the various exceptions just allow copying of content for some form of electronic analysis, and training for AI is no different in that respect from 'TDM' or any other similar activity. It may be relevant that when the UK IPO proposed an unlimited commercial exception for TDM last year (which was thankfully withdrawn), the initial consultation was specifically about AI, but the final proposal was framed as 'TDM' more broadly.

Also, you may be aware that the STM association's technology committee is setting up a working group on Article 4. It would be good to have the two groups aligned on objectives, if not solutions. Can anyone join the call or do they also need to be members of this community?

Best
Duncan


-----Original Message-----
From: Quentin Deschandelliers <qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu<mailto:qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu>>
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2023 10:29 AM
To: TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group <team-community-process@w3.org<mailto:team-community-process@w3.org>>; public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org>
Subject: RE: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

⛔       This is an external email.


Dear all,

Unfortunately I will be on vacation on the 4th of April so I will not be able to attend the call. That being said, on issue 1) I'm happy to send an email to the Commission to ask whether some of their people could attend the call to follow and maybe to share their opinion on the issue.

Let me know.

Best,

QUENTIN DESCHANDELLIERS
Legal Advisor

+32 2 770 11 10 (general)
+32 2 776 84 63 (direct)
qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu<mailto:qdeschandelliers@fep-fee.eu>






-----Message d'origine-----
De : W3C Community Development Team <team-community-process@w3.org<mailto:team-community-process@w3.org>> Envoyé : mercredi 22 mars 2023 13:07 À : public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org> Objet : Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

Giulia and I had a quick call, to discussed a practical path to the next steps of our work. Here is our proposal:



1/ Study if "the use of data for the purposes of training an AI/ML model” is the same thing as “the use of data for the purposes of data mining”, especially in the scope of the EU DSM Directive. For that we need access to document formalizing the position of experts in this field, we need lawyers around the table, and the opinion of EU Commission people would be welcome.



2/ Discuss if we should apply evolutions to the specification in order to embed TDMRep properties in different types of resources (images, PDF and EPUB come to minds). One important question is what should be found in such resources: TDMRep properties (as we defined them) or detailed usage rights information (as the IPTC is defining them)?



3/ If the answer to issue 2 is "yes we should embed TDMRep properties in resources", then how should we embed them? (XMP comes to minds there).



Could we start with issue 1? AI and LLMs are the big thing currently, and there is traction for protecting artistic content against free commercial use in AI products.



We therefore propose to held a Zoom call on this topic on April 4th, 14 UTC (16:00 CEST), using this URL: https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fus06web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F84639131689%3Fpwd%3DQXl1T1R1UldjdG1XR00rWG5ZQUlZQT09__%3B!!N11eV2iwtfs!skHvo9AIBvyNslLI-qv3iDfkSq-qwfSwSNUT8xJ8_DfxlhshQ2YP_8rAGxUWpHeHCi3DyEzmixy28Tf-YMC-TZMUw-zVQfI%24&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7Cbdd49dd236844f46b5ab08db2ee0862a%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638155314087250255%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PaqnonMoFNNY%2FfRQBBIpo6Xbx7bDaZulCyEHfMKl1oE%3D&reserved=0




Please indicate if you're willing to join, and if you have a specific expertise in the AI vs TDM field.



----------

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'Next steps, let's talk'

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