Re: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

Yes, the Do Not Train is coming in the upcoming release.  An April 4th is also fine.

Leonard

From: Laurent Le Meur <laurent@edrlab.org>
Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 10:00 AM
To: Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com>
Cc: TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group <team-community-process@w3.org>, public-tdmrep@w3.org <public-tdmrep@w3.org>
Subject: Re: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]

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Hi Leonard,

I am more than happy to present the work of the C2PA, both generally and in this particular context, at the April 14thmeeting.

This would be great; I don't find mention of the "Do not train" property in the C2PA specification. Maybe it is for the next version?

Warning, I proposed  April 4th, 2 pm UTC (16:00 CEST). The "14 UTC" was misleading.

L


Le 22 mars 2023 à 14:27, Leonard Rosenthol <lrosenth@adobe.com<mailto:lrosenth@adobe.com>> a écrit :

For those that didn’t see it, yesterday Adobe announced our new Firefly family of Creative Generative AI solutions -https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20230321005451/en/Adobe-Unveils-Firefly-a-Family-of-new-Creative-Generative-AI<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.businesswire.com%2Fnews%2Fhome%2F20230321005451%2Fen%2FAdobe-Unveils-Firefly-a-Family-of-new-Creative-Generative-AI&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C520fa6bd77e044d4c2c708db2addb86d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638150903996614168%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=YTjh2XR0qAjhAN5ZvZzJ0uo7Mgh9prRT%2BSFjvu0sCMs%3D&reserved=0>

As part of that, Adobe has been working with the Coalition for Content Provenance and Authenticity (C2PA,https://c2pa.org<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2F&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C520fa6bd77e044d4c2c708db2addb86d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638150903996770397%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KroWHuN0b63QUpGMsDUoU%2Fv04nF8xTeBmE2c0tkyRTA%3D&reserved=0>), to define a standard for “Do Not Train” as part of the embedded provenance information already addressed by that organization.  Since I happen to chair the Technical Working Group of the C2PA, and having been involved with this group, I designed the technology to support not only “Do Not Train” but also align with the work of this committee to support TDM as well.

The C2PA solution works for ALL asset types – whether images, videos, audio, and PDFs.  You can find the current set of supported formats athttps://c2pa.org/specifications/specifications/1.2/specs/C2PA_Specification.html#_embedding_manifests_into_assets<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fc2pa.org%2Fspecifications%2Fspecifications%2F1.2%2Fspecs%2FC2PA_Specification.html%23_embedding_manifests_into_assets&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C520fa6bd77e044d4c2c708db2addb86d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638150903996770397%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=M7TLux7ucUaBMlFfAthaIODsYZBy5zf%2F2zvJmI%2FE0e0%3D&reserved=0>, but we have a number of new ones being added as part of our upcoming 1.3 update.   EPUB is currently not supported, but we have an open issue to do so – and I know what to do, so it will happen.

I will note that there is a W3C [PBG/PCG] Anti-Counterfeit Task Force, which is also considering C2PA a solution there as well – so having the two align would make a lot of sense.

I am more than happy to present the work of the C2PA, both generally and in this particular context, at the April 14thmeeting.

Leonard

From: W3C Community Development Team <team-community-process@w3.org<mailto:team-community-process@w3.org>>
Date: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 8:07 AM
To: public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org> <public-tdmrep@w3.org<mailto:public-tdmrep@w3.org>>
Subject: Next steps, let's talk [via TDM Reservation Protocol Community Group]
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Giulia and I had a quick call, to discussed a practical path to the next steps of our work. Here is our proposal:



1/ Study if "the use of data for the purposes of training an AI/ML model” is the same thing as “the use of data for the purposes of data mining”, especially in the scope of the EU DSM Directive. For that we need access to document formalizing the position of experts in this field, we need lawyers around the table, and the opinion of EU Commission people would be welcome.



2/ Discuss if we should apply evolutions to the specification in order to embed TDMRep properties in different types of resources (images, PDF and EPUB come to minds). One important question is what should be found in such resources: TDMRep properties (as we defined them) or detailed usage rights information (as the IPTC is defining them)?



3/ If the answer to issue 2 is "yes we should embed TDMRep properties in resources", then how should we embed them? (XMP comes to minds there).



Could we start with issue 1? AI and LLMs are the big thing currently, and there is traction for protecting artistic content against free commercial use in AI products.



We therefore propose to held a Zoom call on this topic on April 4th, 14 UTC (16:00 CEST), using this URL:https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus06web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F84639131689%3Fpwd%3DQXl1T1R1UldjdG1XR00rWG5ZQUlZQT09&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C46fb2e7eadfc4808df4808db2acdf535%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638150836297118557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WUSuKY1SXIE0DuSf9EqASOlTeG4fnUuyT0L6Atjlogo%3D&reserved=0<https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fus06web.zoom.us%2Fj%2F84639131689%3Fpwd%3DQXl1T1R1UldjdG1XR00rWG5ZQUlZQT09&data=05%7C01%7Clrosenth%40adobe.com%7C520fa6bd77e044d4c2c708db2addb86d%7Cfa7b1b5a7b34438794aed2c178decee1%7C0%7C0%7C638150903996770397%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=hjkQbPWNawPM4Mmc3DjdJ90TJ1izM%2BeOSKKtNy1Wuv4%3D&reserved=0>



Please indicate if you're willing to join, and if you have a specific expertise in the AI vs TDM field.



----------

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