Re: Domain sketch

Hi Jim

On 22/08/2019 22:18, Jim Goodell wrote:
> One thing I'm not sure about:
>
> If we say
>     "@type":"http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential"  <http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential>,   // the thing is a credential
>
> That thing is defined in Schema as:
> "An educational or occupational credential. A diploma, academic 
> degree, certification, qualification, badge, etc., *that may be 
> awarded to a person* or other entity that meets the requirements 
> defined by the credentialer."
>
> So it is not the assertion, and not a tangible thing in the world like 
> the paper diploma. It is information about something that may be 
> awarded. It is metadata defining a class of thing not an instance of a 
> thing.
>
You are right that it is not a tangible thing like a paper diploma.

It is the intangible thing that Greg called the platonic ideal. It is 
like what is identified by an ISBN or GTIN, which likewise do not 
identify individual copies of a book or product, but do refer to 
something that you may get an instance of.

> So shouldn't the comment be corrected?...
>    "@type":"http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential"  <http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential>,   // the thing is a credential*definition*
>
The definition is a different thing, but easily confused because when 
you resolve the identifier for a EducationalOccupationCredential you 
will likely be redirected to a definition or description (which I guess 
is the same). Sometimes the distinction matters more than others: for 
example when you want to change the definition without changing the 
thing being defined, or when you want to say who owns the definition.

A definition is about something, and contains a statement of what type 
of thing that something is. From the JSON-LD spec 
<https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#typed-values>[1]:

> The|@type|keyword <https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#dfn-keyword>is also 
> used to associate a type with anode 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#dfn-node>. The concept of anode type 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#dfn-node-type>and avalue type 
> <https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#dfn-value-type>are different.
>
> Anode typespecifies the type of thing that is being described, like a 
> person, place, event, or web page. Avalue typespecifies the data type 
> of a particular value, such as an integer, a floating point number, or 
> a date.
>
[@type is used for value types in the @context section or in 
@value,@type pairs, what we have here are node types]

{
    "@id": "http://people.pjjk.net/phil#id",    // A web identifier of me, *not* the identifier of a web page about me
    "@type": "http://schema.org/Person",        // I am a Person
    "http://schema.org/name": "Phil Barker"
    "http://schema.org/url": "https://blogs.pjjk.net/phil/"   // the identifier of a web page about me
}


1. https://www.w3.org/TR/json-ld/#typed-values

>
>
>
> On Thursday, August 22, 2019, 02:02:09 PM EDT, Phil Barker 
> <phil.barker@pjjk.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
> On 22/08/2019 17:46, Jim Goodell wrote:
>> SO, I'm going to suggest we all do something *very difficult*, i.e. 
>> we change our own behavior. We need to change the words we use when 
>> we talk to each other to establish a new lexicon that will work 
>> across silos. It has to start with us. We should always say either 
>> "*Credential Definition*" or "*Credential Assertion*" never 
>> "Credential". We should always say either "*Competency Definition*" 
>> or "*Competency Assertion*", never "Competency". And we should hold 
>> each other accountable.
>
> Ooh, I'm not sure about that. How do you say what it is that a 
> Competency Definition is defining? Do I have to say that I am learning 
> a Competency Definition--because that seems quite different from 
> learning a competency.
>
> In the systems we create we will only have C___ Definitions and C___ 
> Assertions, so when we are talking about what we have in those systems 
> that's what we should talk about. But if those are in RDF then we are 
> in a world where we "represent information about things that can be 
> /identified/ on the Web, even when they cannot be directly /retrieved/ 
> on the Web" [1, emphasis in the original], so what we identify is the 
> /thing itself/.
>
> FWIW I think a Credential Definition looks like this in JSON-LD:
>
> {
>     "@id":"http://example.org/credential/123"  <http://example.org/credential/123>,           // a web identifier for the thing itself
>     "@type":"http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential"  <http://schema.org/EducationalOccupationalCredential>,   // the thing is a credential
>     "http://schema.org/credentialCategory"  <http://schema.org/credentialCategory>: "BSc",        // various statements defining the credential
>     "http://schema.org/provider"  <http://schema.org/provider>: {...}
>     ...
> }
>
> (You can call that a graph and give it a name if you want, or put it 
> on a web page and point that with the url property)
>
> I hope that is compatible with what you were meaning: when we talk 
> about what we have in our systems talk about C___ Definition & C___ 
> Assertion; talk about Credentials and Competencies */only/* when we 
> are talking about what is in the outside world.
>
> Phil
>
>
> 1. W3C RDF Primer, section 1 https://www.w3.org/TR/rdf-primer/#intro
>
> -- 
>
> Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
> CETIS LLP <https://www.cetis.org.uk>: a cooperative consultancy for 
> innovation in education technology.
> PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning; 
> information systems for education.
>
> CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in 
> England number OC399090
> PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, 
> number SC569282.
>
-- 

Phil Barker <http://people.pjjk.net/phil>. http://people.pjjk.net/phil
CETIS LLP <https://www.cetis.org.uk>: a cooperative consultancy for 
innovation in education technology.
PJJK Limited <https://www.pjjk.co.uk>: technology to enhance learning; 
information systems for education.

CETIS is a co-operative limited liability partnership, registered in 
England number OC399090
PJJK Limited is registered in Scotland as a private limited company, 
number SC569282.