- From: Battle, Steve <steve.battle@hp.com>
- Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:44:14 -0000
- To: public-sws-ig@w3.org
========================================= Minutes SWSL telecon - March 4, 2004 #42 ========================================= Participants: BG Benjamin Grosof DB Daniela Berardi DM David Martin MK Michael Kifer RH Rick Hull SB Steve Battle SM Sheila McIlraith scribe: SB Minutes ------- Daniela presented - Automatic Composition of eServices: the "Roman" way DB: (e-service as Execution tree) DB: Actions are transparently delegated. Data is not modelled. SB: Is the choice of branch followed (in the execution tree) determined by the client? DB: Yes SM: Are a,b only actions, and not concerned with parameters? RH: We have two parameters (search by author or by title) so we have two actions. SM: Say we are searching for books on Amazon. We have 500K books or so. Do we have 500K separate actions? RH: No, we still search either by author or title. MK: Will we be looking at the differences with Rick's approach later? RH: Yes. DB: (eService composition in the "Roman Framework") MK: What is the target eService (S0)? RH: The desired global behaviour, the goal. S' (the delegator) is constructed to use available services. We have a desired composite S0, and it constructs S'. S' delegates the doing of a,b,r to S1 and S2. MK: But what is the connection between S0 and S'; can it be an approximation? DB: a,b,r become virtual action on S'. RH: S0 is the desired behacviour. S' is able to talk to a client and delegate, bossing S1,S2 around. SM: S0 (the target) appears to be a complete spec of all the transitions in the service. This is unlike classic planning where we aim to reach a goal state. DB: It's fundamental that S0 is a complete description. We're looking to extend the framework so they need not be complete. SM: Is there any notion of state? For example, in Amazon a book may be out of stock. In the situation calculus this would be represented as a fluent, or in OWL-S as an effect. DB: States are encoded by fluents. DB: (Key idea for finding composition: exploit description logics) DB: We can model dynamic behaviour with a description logic encoding. DB: (Results on automatically building eService composition) DB: If the DL knowledge base is satisfiable we build a model. The solution is the delegator. RH: If we take a naive approach we end up with exponential space, but we use FSMs to get exponential time. What is the lower bound? SM: What kind of DL reasoner do you use? DB: ALC DM: Is there a technical report available? DB: Yes <http://www.dis.uniroma1.it/pub/calvanes/bera-etal-TR-22-2003.pdf>. DB: (Results) MK: You are reducing the problem of constructing an FSM to DL. Do known techniques provide similar reductions? DB: Yes, composition in dymanic logic can be moved to DL, exploiting a 1-1 correspondence. RH: Existing approaches look at synthesis or verification. This approach starts with multiple, pre-existing FSMs and combines them. Others have looked at starting with a single FSM and restricting it to get the desired behaviour, synthesising a controller. We are, in effect, marrying these two approaches, so we have not a single controller but a controller of multiple pre-existing FSMs. MG: Robert Floyd was interested in algorithms to compose automata <http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2001/november7/floydobit-117.html>. RH: There is a community looking at FSM descriptions of eServices. I think they are gradually looking to the classical literature. MK: He really invented automata theory. It's important to drill down to fundamentals. MG: There is also Jimmy Crawford's work. DB: (e-composition schema) SM: Are the messages synonymous with actions? RH: No, a particular action may depend on information from two different peers. We're interested in syntheising a model that embraces both actions and messages. MK: In principle even a message can be encoded as an action. RH: Can we build a bridge to actions that have preconditions and effects? We can go from the messaging model to Danielas model, but not yet all the way to DAML-S. SM: Do you mean execution actions rather than what is really being performed? RH: Yes - actions in terms of effects. MK: So messages are low-level actions, but there's no representation of what they do. What about describing the peers with pi-calculus to represent what each guy is doing? RH: With the pi-calculus, individual components are basically FSMs. But pi-calculus doesn't look at unbounded queues, all communication is synchronous. The kinds of questions we ask are different to those asked by the pi-calculus people. DB: ("Roman" activity based vs. message based) SM: Was the activity based model developed in OWL-S the right choice? Things like BPEL are more message based. RH: Can we take Danielas result and apply it to the message based model? RH: 1) How do we represent a single eService? Using a FSM, transitions can be labelled with incoming and outgoing messages, or actions (changes to the world). 2) How does composition allow for messages? MK: Can these internal actions be represented as a change in a database? RH: As a change in the fluents representing the outside world. SM: How do actions relate to messages? Is the relation indexed by a situation, and is therefore a fluent? RH: They're fluents by definition. RH: The message passing model is interesting. We want to represent them in the most natural way with their subtle aspect formally present before simplifying and reducing. We don't want to prematurely force them into the situation calculus. SM: What about data? How do I model Amazon as an FSM without parameters? DB: This is a high level of abstraction. SM: This is a different starting point to DAML-S. Any WS that takes input is parameterized. Do we enumerate all the ground actions or limit ourselves to services without parameters. What if the output is a function of the parameter values? RH: That's a non-determisism based on the parameter value. The service makes the choice to go one way or the other. But in the Roman model it's always the client that makes the non-deterministic choice. SM: The parameter may also dictate the services we require (eg. buy me a ticket to Hawaii). All agreed to continue with the presentation at the next telecon. Actions arising: MG to send reference to Robert Floyds work to list.
Received on Monday, 15 March 2004 12:22:10 UTC