Re: Updated wish list

ne 9. 4. 2023 v 7:06 odesílatel Melvin Carvalho <>

> ne 9. 4. 2023 v 2:06 odesílatel Johannes Ernst <>
> napsal:
>> Hey, could you fill what you said here into the survey I just sent? That
>> might make it easier to keep an overview of the various views by everybody,
>> and then we can have a consolidated discussion?
>> (Note that I’m much more interested that this group is (re-)starting to
>> move in some direction it is comfortable with, than that I get exactly what
>> I would prefer … :-))
> Thanks for the reminder.  I think W3C CG mailing lists, while certainly
> not perfect, have a few benefits for discussion:
> - bullet proof mechanism for creating royalty free technology
> - long track record for keeping public mailing lists
> - tooling that most of the group is familiar with
> Other tools such as forums, surveys could be useful additions to this,
> particularly in straw polling.  But I think in terms of figuring out what
> to do with activity pub the ML is going to be a good starting
> point.  I think it may be possible to take things from the public mailing
> list and add them to a knowledge base, e.g. with an automated script, but
> perhaps check with w3c first.
> I've been through a lot of the open issues yesterday.  AP has actually
> changed several times since it was first published.  There seems to be a
> lack of change control, from what I saw, I may be wrong.  But it is the
> case that the context has now diverged from the AS 1.0 vocab (this is
> bad!).  Some of the examples are broken.  It's in a worse state than I
> thought with fundamental parts of the vocab broken or inconsistent.  There
> seem two options.  One is to accept the technical debt, and live with it.
> The other is to make "breaking fixes", but that would likely require a full
> version upgrade, and tt's unclear who would upgrade.  I think mastodon is
> going to have to express an opinion as to what they want or dont want
> upstream, and then that can be a basis to fix and improve AP.

I mean specifically that AS 2.0 has changed several times, since
publication, and not just editorial

>> Cheers,
>> Johannes.
>> Johannes Ernst
>> Blog:
>> FediForum:
>> Dazzle:
>> On Apr 7, 2023, at 15:03, Johann Galle <> wrote:
>> I apologize in advance for probably being snarky.
>> On 2023-04-06 00:52+01:00, Johannes Ernst wrote:
>> > A design to reduce certain loads:
>> > - Fan-out
>> Might we call this "federation" maybe? or "running smaller instances"? :^)
>> > - Video
>> Not sure what you specifically want to reduce load with video, wouldn't
>> it be more generally about files? My naive guess would be to use CDNs.
>> > future of ActivityPub Client-to-Server (C2S)
>> I have to admit I have not acquainted myself in too deep detail with C2S
>> but what seems to be missing is retrieving things? And at least in the way
>> I use it, there is a lot more reading than writing, so that part would be
>> arguably more important. Not sure what the advantage of splitting the specs
>> would be since they would continue to be probably closely related.
>> > Signed content
>> This is really something that I would like to be standardized. The
>> current state is as I see more or less that Mabstodon dictates for everyone
>> that we are stuck with an outdated RFC draft for HTTP signatures (or an
>> even more outdated LdSignature thing). As far as I am aware there is a
>> [FEP-8b32] about this and while I cannot comment on the technical merit I
>> think that a FEP is a good place to kind of work out how the things should
>> work and what problems may be and generally discuss it.
>> [FEP-8b32]:
>> > Private messages
>> I'm not sure that ActivityPub is the right tool to do private (or also
>> instant) messaging.
>> There are plenty of protocols/services already around for this specific
>> purpose and IMHO ActivityPub doesn't have to be the silver bullet for
>> everything.
>> ActivityPub also definitely has some overhead and also privacy risks
>> (e.g.: Wildebeest not interpreting addressing correctly).
>> > A branding program for products that have passed the test suite
>> To me "branding" does not really sound like something nice, if I think
>> about the literal sense. And thinking of the metaphorical sense also
>> doesn't sound much better either, since it evokes images of "corporatism"
>> that I am honestly happy at least the part of the Fediverse I call home has
>> managed to avoid this far.
>> > As an implementor, you get to put the sticker on your product.
>> > In particular, in the places in the product where users “connect” to
>> other servers in the Fediverse, like “Visa” is displayed at the POS terminal
>> > I believe this will become critical if/when larger orgs with
>> potentially different value systems connect to the Fediverse
>> There already is a logo for ActivityPub and/or the Fediverse which people
>> could use for this purpose and I think projects do use them. But since they
>> are just pixel graphics nothing would stop me from adding them without
>> getting authoritatively certified by someone.
>> > A set of web “intent buttons” for Like, Follow, Post, etc that work
>> across sites
>> As far as I am aware Mastodon had something like this with
>> authorize_follow URLs which were a part of OStatus I think, but this as
>> been removed. I am not sure of the reasoning, maybe it was just because
>> they wanted to remove old OStatus leftovers.
>> But I'm not really sure why they are necessary if instead it would be
>> possible to put a things URI in your instances search bar and then being
>> able to interact with it (the "new" solution). Having buttons for this is
>> IMHO gimmicky and probably also out of scope for this spec.
>> > Best practices for content propagation
>> > - E.g. resolve the “It has 5 likes here but 10 over there” issue and
>> related.
>> I think this is a pretty much fundamental "problem" of a distributed
>> system and is unsolvable. You could maybe have an "update" button next to
>> everything but that would play back into your prior point of reducing load?
>> And why would it be necessary to know exactly how many likes someone's post
>> has in the first place, other than "clout"?
>> > Improved identity management across the Fediverse
>> > - Easy-to-use single-sign-on across servers.
>> As already noted in
>> single-sign-on and ActivityPub do not really have to do much together since
>> ActivityPub is about activities and publishing them. There are existing
>> technologies for this and as I said already, ActivityPub does not need to
>> be a silver bullet.
>> Regards,
>> Johann
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Received on Sunday, 9 April 2023 05:18:12 UTC