- From: Kingsley Idehen <kidehen@openlinksw.com>
- Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2006 09:49:55 -0500
- CC: public-sweo-ig@w3.org
Kingsley Idehen wrote: > > Ivan Herman wrote: >> Wing C Yung wrote: >> >>> I think that it's great that we have some SIOC producers; it's >>> definitely >>> the first step towards *enabling* a potential "killer app" for the >>> Semantic >>> Web. Having the data as RDF is necessary but not sufficient to convince >>> people of the benefits. The "killer app" is going to be a consumer >>> of data >>> (like a SW-enabled feed aggregator/reader that does something >>> compelling >>> with the data), not the data itself. Right now, are there other >>> consumers >>> besides the one [1] listed on the SIOC page? >>> >>> [1] >>> http://sparql.captsolo.net/browser/browser.py?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.johnbreslin.com%2Fblog%2Findex.php%3Fsioc_type%3Dpost%26sioc_id%3D462 >>> >>> >>> Wing >>> >>> >> >> It depends on the community, of course, but generally I concur. >> >> Let me tell you about ne specific experience I had (Karen was there, >> too, she probably remembers). We, ie, some team people from W3C, had a >> meeting with a whole group of *technical* people (not manager types) >> from Merck. It was a very long meeting; it included a presentation on >> Piggy Bank, some discussion with Tim, and a very long >> presentation/discussion led by me. Actually, it was quite successful; >> Merck joined W3C and are now active participants of the HCLS IG. >> >> As part of the presentation I also used the tabulator to show the power >> of merging/integrating data. Without entering into details, it used all >> kinds of data spread around on W3C site and elswhere on various >> technical documents, their translations, the persons involved and their >> data, etc. Sure, the tabulator does not have the smoothest interface, >> but the point could get across. >> >> After the presentation, the leader of the Merck delegation (a very >> friendly chap whom I knew because he had been at my tutorial in >> Edinburgh earlier that year) came to me and said privately: that type of >> demonstration does not work for them. It is way too geeky, it is way too >> much the 'same story' that they hear, but it does not really show what >> this technology can do for *them*. What made them move is the >> realization of using their data in their databases, integrate those, >> combined with their own real problems that they encounter. >> >> To avoid misunderstandings: SIOC is a great stuff (I have the radar >> running on my Firefox:-). That is not the point. The point is that for >> *corporate developers* we need specific use cases in their own >> environments and settings, using *their* language. If we have a real >> example (should be more!) on how data integration solves a specific >> development problem within an entreprise (even if this is not their >> specific area of business) *then* they will listen. Something that I >> have been telling for some time: we desperately need *those* use cases. >> With all my due respect (I mean it!) for the blogosphere, the Web2.0 >> buzz, etc, I am not sure *that* will be the decisive factor to look at >> the Semantic Web for the Boeings, Mercks, DaimlerBenz-s, Shells, etc, of >> this World... >> >> Just my to pence. Well: the reason why I think it is imperative for the >> SWEO group to collect those use cases. In my view, we desperately need >> those industrial use cases (personally, I believe, more than anything >> else!) to help the Semantic Web moving forward. >> >> Apologies for the long mail... >> >> Cheers >> >> Ivan >> >> P.S. The HCLS IG will produce some documents soon on how these >> technologies can be used in their settings, by the way. And a bigger >> demo should be around by May. Is the correct, Susie? >> >> >> >> > Ivan, > > As you may recall, I have tried to have us develop our messaging from > a base such that we split the usage scenarios, FAQ, and other > collateral along the following lines: > > 1. Web Community > 2. Enterprise Community > 3. DBMS Technology vendors > > The SIOC demos and commentary are about the Web (in particular the > Blogosphere). But it can be used for Enterprise customers if put in > their context using appropriate parlance. The problem I see re. > contributions to this discourse via SWEO is: how many members of SWEO > currently fit the Enterprise Developer/Architect/Manager profile? I > ask this question because if the readership of SWEO itself isn't > conversant in "Enterprise Technology lingo" even the most basic > contributions to such discourse will attract one of the following > comments; > > 1. This is too technical (where this sometimes implies: I don't > understand the lingo or I just don't like it, it's buzzword heavy etc.) > 2. No! Product Promo etc.. > > The remainder of this mail is for SWEO readership in general (as > opposed to Ivan specifically): > > SIOC in the Enterprise is quite simple (IMHO), ditto the Semantic Web > vision. > > What does SIOC do for the Enterprise? It provides infrastructure for > coherent implementation and usage of standards compliant Distributed > Collaborative Applications (DCA) [1]. Every enterprise on this planet > is struggling with the construction of cohesive and coherent > infrastructure for collaboration. Just as the Web is making the world > smaller, the behemoth enterprise of this planet are desperately trying > to get smaller. Blogs, Wikis, Shared Bookmarks, Discussion Forums, > Mailing Lists, IRC channels are all pieces of the solution puzzle that > they are stifled in the enterprise for the following reasons: > > 1. Disparate Databases driving the platforms > 2. Legacy platform lock-in problems at the DBMS, Operating Systems, > and Development Environment levels > > SIOC as an Ontology provides the glue for unshackling the Data in the > aforementioned DCAs. Through SIOC they are able to map existing Data > Sources to SIOC (and other Ontologies for that matter) using an array > of emerging middleware solutions [2]. Of course, they don't have to > use these middleware options, but this is where the basic cost-benefit > analysis of the "build vs buy" comes in for the decision makers. Thus, > when looking at the issue of collaboration, it is very clear to me > what Semantic Web technologies offer to the Enterprises that are > inherently heterogeneous at the DBMS, Operating System, and > Development Environments levels. Even more so for someone who has > worked on these Enterprise Integration problems since the late 80's > (on both sides of the fence; I worked as an accountant for many years > before crossing over to the vendor side of the fence). > > Andersen Consulting have a nice presentation about enterprise DCA > challenges titled: Visualizing Organizational Changes [3]. Although > this particular case study deals with social networking (Graph Model > etc..) and its impact on post merger relationships etc. You can also > apply the same observations to the recent spate of A-List Bloggers > that have departed their organizations to set up shop on their own. > The point here is that organizations live and die by there ability to > exploit Information. > Another point, Lotus Notes is an example of first generation DCA > technology. > > SIOC is to the Semantic Web what RSS 2.0 was to the bootstrapping of > the Blogosphere whch ultimately gave rise to the Web 2.0 movement. If > you can juxtapose a SIOC button alongside every RSS 2.0 button in the > Blogosphere and then query across the resulting data sources via > SPARQL, you have the foundation for lots of practical Semantic Web > demonstrations for Enterprise, Web, and DBMS communities. SIOC is > flexible enough to pull along FOAF, SKOS, RSS 1.0, Annotea, AtomOWL > and others endeavors in the RDF Instance Data for Outreach and > Education efforts. If these Ontologies weren't mutually inclusive what > on earth are we doing? Or seeking to achieve? SIOC demos aren't aren't > about SIOC vs FOAF vs Annotea vs anything else. They are simply about > the quest for use cases that resonate with the target audience of > SWEO: Decision Makers. > > BTW - I am passionate about SIOC for the same reasons I am passionate > about ODBC [4], neither is a creation of mine, I simply understand > their intrinsic value and find myself lucky enough to be able to > assemble the required resources to assist in exposing and sharing the > value of said technologies with the broader community. > Links: > 1. http://www.cs.duke.edu/ari/cisi/relay/doc/paper.ps > 2. http://esw.w3.org/topic/RdfAndSql > 3. http://www.accenture.com/xdoc/en/AccentureSNA.swf (note this takes > a while to load) > 4. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Ken_North/Odbcfact.HTM (some background on ODBC; point being, one can genuinely innovate for a greater good in appreciation of standards or de facto standards which has always been my modus operandi). -- Regards, Kingsley Idehen Weblog: http://www.openlinksw.com/blog/~kidehen President & CEO OpenLink Software Web: http://www.openlinksw.com
Received on Friday, 22 December 2006 14:50:14 UTC