Meeting record: 2007-10-11 RDFa Task Force

All,

The record of yesterday's RDFa Task Force telecon [1]
is ready for review.

[1] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html


Topics 
1. Action Items 
2. Summary of F2F 
3. New Test Cases 
4. Schedule 

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: All look at tests 46 - 53 and write what you believe the
correct triples are [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to find a more appropriate predicate than
foaf:knows for TC46-53 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on
rdfa.info [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking
that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite
archive [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

Full copy follows below.

Cheers,
	Michael
_____________________________________________________________
W3C RDF-in-XHTML TF - Telecon

11 Oct 2007

Agenda [1]

See also: IRC log [2], previous 2007-10-04 [3]

[1]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0083.
html
[2] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-irc
[3] http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html

Attendees
 Present 
  Ben Adida, Ralph Swick, Manu Sporny (Digital Bazaar, Guest), 
  Steven Pemberton, Shane McCarron, Mark Birbeck, Michael Hausenblas 
Regrets 
Chair 
 Ben 
Scribe 
 Michael, Ralph 
Contents
 Topics 
 1. Action Items 
 2. Summary of F2F 
 3. New Test Cases 
 4. Schedule 
Summary of Action Items 


<mhausenblas> previous 2007-10-04

<Steven> ;-) you mean

<mhausenblas> scribenick: mhausenblas

<scribe> ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]

Action Items
<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben to add status of various implementations on
rdfa.info [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

<Steven> http://rdfa.info/rdfa-implementations/

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[DONE]

Ben: We need to sort this out - wait for Mark
... @rel support for backwards compatibility

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test
suite archive [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12] [DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [NEW] Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test
suite [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10] [DONE]

->
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0078.
html New Test Cases

Ben: Mark, we were just discussing @rel issues
... should add default values or drop them?

Mark: Kind of taxonomy of useful values

Ben: As @property is a new attribute ...

Steven: @property replaces @name

Mark: @name is still there
... some interesting use cases came up recently
... wonder if we need a 1:1 correspondance

Ralph: Support Marks comment; we should discourage unprefixed usage for
new written documents

<Zakim> Ralph, you wanted to say that @property is the new @name but we
don't have syntax compatibility concerns that require us to back fit
existing usage

<Steven> <meta name="dc.creator" property="dc:creator" content="Mark
Birbeck"/>

Ben: So we should not have non-prefixed values for @property

Mark: Basically agree
... need to check for consistency

Ben: Resolve it via mailing list

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Ben to look into Science Commons use case
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE]

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael make sure to confirm a design for
checking that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07] [CONTINUES]

Michael will write up a proposal how to mark it up in th manifest

<scribe> ACTION: [PENDING] Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06] [CONTINUES]

Summary of F2F
<Ralph> F2F discussion

Steven: All SWD participants were very convinced
... and Mark's slides were not needed

Mark: Good vibes - very encouraging

Ben: Good work. Still, we need to continue to work hard

Michael: -> http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa/ImplReport SWD
action on RDFa Implementation

Steven: Depends on exit criteria
... if we decide we need two implementations for exit from CR< then we
need two columns, one for each implementation, with a tick for each test
passed

Ralph: Will add examples to the Wiki

Steven: tick is important

New Test Cases
->
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-in-xhtml-tf/2007Oct/0078.
html New Test Cases

<Ralph> scribenick: ralph

-- test 46

->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/Test0046
test 46

Michael: test 46 - 53 are all @instanceof with various combinations of
other attributes

Ralph: find a different property than foaf:knows so the semantics of the
relationship between the page and John Doe is correct
... e.g. foaf:depicts ?

Michael: probably;

<benadida> ACTION: Michael to find a more appropriate predicate than
foaf:knows for TC46-53 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]

<benadida> e.g. foaf:maker

Manu: foaf:maker ?

<Steven> dc:creator?

Ralph: this test is consisent with our decision, yes. I still question
some details of the decision

Mark: this is the debate about @instanceof -- isn't that debate still
open?

Ben: not still open, we've decided that @instanceof without @about
applies to the object bnode

Mark: the debate is whether @instanceof applies to the subject or to the
object

<ShaneM> Certainly in this:
http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/2007/ED-rdfa-syntax-20070927/#s_rdfaindetail it
says the issue is open.

Ralph: I think this was the decision, even if I disagree with it :)

<msporny> +1 for test case 46

Shane: the point of the note in the document is that the document is not
clear on this decision

<mhausenblas> Ivan's comment

<mhausenblas> @instanceof

Ben: there may be an issue with the way the rules are described
... but without looking at the processing rules, can we agree or
disagree that the proposed triples are what we want?

Mark: the DIV could create a bnode _:y
... with _:y foaf:knows _:x
... and _:y rdf:type foaf:Person

Ben: @@

Mark: DIV with just @rel is unambiguous

Ralph: a useful interpretation would be (though in this case
semantically incorrect) 0046.xhtml rdf:type foaf:Person

Ben: that interpretation would violate all our rules about @instanceof
... gets confusing if you think about it as more than one bnode
... but easier if there's just one bnode that is the chaining element

Mark: too many special cases going on
... the one I'm happy with is when @rel sits on its own

Ben: if @rel causes chaining, it has to identify the chaining subject

Mark: @rel traditionally applies to the document, regardless of where it
sits; i.e. in traditional HTML @rel applies to the global document
... we've added the ability to specify the subject
... if @rel applies to the thing above it, or when there's nothing above
it, it gets confusing

Michael: @instanceof is syntactic sugar for @rel w/ @href

Ben: no, @instance of is really sugar for LINK with @rel ...

Ralph: consider test 50

Mark: I thought that this issue was connected to the issue of what to do
with @about

<mhausenblas> Michael: in TC 50 there should be a bNode as subject IMHO

Ben: test 50 looks very wrong to me

Ralph: I agree that 46 and 50 are contradictory

Ben: test 50 needs a bnode
... it's always the same bnode
... and the bnode is the object of the outer statement

Mark: and if there were an @about it would give a name to the bnode
... and if you add @rel, what's changed?

Ben: @instanceof inherits @about

Mark: @instanceof still belongs in the list of predicates; the predicate
happens to be rdf:type

<benadida> <div resource="#foo" instanceof="foo:bar">

<benadida> </div>

Mark: that example is a grey area in my model

Ben: I thought we'd agreed that this was <#foo> rdf:type <foo:bar>

Mark: end up using @about and @resource interchangeably

<benadida> <div href="#foo" instanceo="foo:bar"></div>

Mark: I really don't like that @href is chaining

Ralph: tests 46 - 53 are inconsistent
... they also have typos; e.g. the URI in 50 is clearly not mentioned
anywhere
... suggest that each of us look at 46 - 53 and propose what we think
are the fixes to the inconsistencies

<scribe> ACTION: All look at tests 46 - 53 and write what you believe
the correct triples are [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]

<benadida> schedule ->
http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/wiki/RDFa#RDFa_schedule

Schedule
<scribe> scribenick: mhausenblas

Ben: 15 Nov is the strict deadline
... for the syntax doc

Steven: Out ASAP

Shane: Need to address some issues from SWD F2F

Mark: True but no critical ones

<Steven> 31 Oct is the drop dead date for this draft

Ben: What is the next possible date for new syntax?

Mark: 2007-10-16

Steven: Will take care for publication (from Shane)

Shane: I'll start today and work all night :)

<ShaneM> 'cause I have no life.

<Ralph> Shane: I will signal Steven when the doc is ready to publish

<Steven> XHTML2 WG ratified the decision to publish

Ben: Primer in upcoming week

Ralph: Will support Ben

Ben: Need to work hard till the end of the year!

<Ralph> Ben: I will signal Ralph when the Primer is ready to publish

Ben: I'll be on vacation from 18-24 Oct

<Ralph> Regrets for 25 Oct

<Ralph> Ben: I cannot chair on the 25th

<Ralph> Michael: regrets for 25 Oct

Michael: I'm on travel on 25th

<Ralph> Steven: at risk for 18 Oct

Steven: 18th is on risk

Ben: Nice work Mark and Shane

Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: All look at tests 46 - 53 and write what you believe the
correct triples are [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
[NEW] ACTION: Ben to set up a proper scribe schedule [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: Michael to find a more appropriate predicate than
foaf:knows for TC46-53 [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/11-rdfa-minutes.html#action09]
 
[PENDING] ACTION: Ben to add status of various implementations on
rdfa.info [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael make sure to confirm a design for checking
that the ASK SPARQL queries evaluate (yes/no) [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/09/06-rdfa-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: Michael to create "Microformats done right --
unambiguous taxonomies via RDF" on the wiki [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/08/23-rdfa-minutes.html#action06]
 
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to bring non-prefixed @rel issue to email [recorded
in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action13]
[DONE] ACTION: Ben to look into Science Commons use case [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2006/12/11-htmltf-minutes.html#action04]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael add Fabien's proposed tests to the test suite
archive [recorded in
http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action12]
[DONE] ACTION: Michael add Ivan's proposed tests to the test suite
[recorded in http://www.w3.org/2007/10/04-rdfa-minutes.html#action10]
 
[End of minutes]
_____________________________________________________________



----------------------------------------------------------
 Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
 Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
 JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
 Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA

 <office>
    phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191)   
   e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at
      web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/ 

 <private>
   mobile: +43-660-7621761
      web: http://www.sw-app.org/ 
----------------------------------------------------------

Received on Friday, 12 October 2007 09:22:08 UTC